Pursuing Traditional vs. Non-Traditional Asian Careers
EPISODE 2 — 13 NOVEMBER 2021
“As the eldest child, I wanted to do well or be successful to make my parents happy and for them to feel like their hard work has not gone to waste. I wanted to be a good role model for my sisters, so I put that pressure on myself.”
ABOUT THE EP
After some technical (and manual) difficulties, Episode 2 is ready for the world! We talk about our experience pursuing non-traditional Asian careers, living for our parents, pressures we put on ourselves, and saying yes to everything.
THE DETAILS
How we got into the creative industry
Why stability is the priority for our migrant parents
Dealing with pressures from our family
Does money = success?
Chasing every opportunity and getting out of our bubble
Our transition from high school to university
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Tracy
Hey friends, welcome back to the podcast. Episode two.
Wendy
Take two.
Tracy
Oh, guys, the journey to this episode was something else.
Wendy
We decided to try and film episode two, take one, early in the morning. But we just figured that we're not morning people. We should have known this, Tracy.
Tracy
Yeah, it was like 8:30am. Very ambitious on a Sunday morning.
Wendy
Yeah and we were listening back to the recording, we were just sounding really, really dead. So for our listeners, we're all about quality here.
Tracy
So we're doing this take again. This is the second time we're doing this. It's a Thursday night now.
Wendy
Yes. 9pm.
Tracy
On a weeknight, we're wild.
Wendy
Yeah, we decided this morning to do this episode again. Because we are perfectionist to a certain degree.
Tracy
We also just spent about an hour, over an hour, trying to figure out this microphone situation. Send us your tips, guys.
Wendy
Anyway, we figured it out. It's fine. Hopefully this will be the only take. Fingers crossed. All right, let's dive into it.
Tracy
So in today's episode, we're going to talk about pursuing non-traditional Asian careers. We're going to introduce what we do, our industries, how we got there, and our greatest learnings so far.
Wendy
Amazing. So to start off, we recognise that some of you know us really, really well, but some of you don't, from a professional standpoint. So I'll introduce my nine to five. I am a design consultant for a service design company called the customer experience company. I do this Monday to Friday. And I first started off in consulting at Deloitte Digital, but I ended up here within the last half year or so. How about you, Tracy?
Tracy
I'm an account manager at a digital advertising agency called Orchard. I've been here a bit over a year now. And I was in a agency called Ogilvy Health before that.
Wendy
Good point. I didn't mention how long I've been in the industry. I've been in consulting for almost three years now. And I think Tracy, you've been around for like three and a half years? Yes. So very, very similar lengths in the industry, the creative industry. What does a day in the life look like for you, Tracy?
Tracy
Yeah, so how I explain what I do to people is that, I guess, my team is an extension of our client's marketing team. How it works is our clients would brief me specifically because I'm an account manager - so I'm client facing - on their problem, what they want to do. So for example, it could be launching a new product next year. And they brief that into me, I get that briefed into my creative team. We have designers and copywriters, and a bunch of strategists and other people, and we come back with the best solution and creative for the client. So that's essentially what we do in a nutshell. How about you?
Wendy
I always find it really difficult to tell people what I do. But I tell people that I studied graphic design in uni, but what I do day to day uses the conceptual skills that I learned in uni like Design Thinking methodologies and human centred design to help clients problem solve. So to put that in layman's terms, it's kind of like, if a client comes to us with a problem about their service, they send us out to do some research around how to improve it. And then we listen to the pain points of like customers, and then respond to it with a set of solutions that they can implement to improve their service. So that's what it is, in a nutshell, as well. I think what would be interesting, actually, beyond what we do nine to five, is the journey that we took to get to where we are today. So Tracy, how did how did you end up in this career? How did it come about?
Tracy
Oh, that's a big question. I never knew about the advertising industry, like I think I only found out about it probably in my last year of university. To be honest, when I was very young, I wanted to be a bunch of different things, really random. I wanted to be an office lady at school because they'll just always be in their aircon offices, on computers, and I as a student really envied them and that was I think honestly my first memory of what I wanted to do. And then after that I wanted to be an illustrator, then an author, then I want to get into fashion design. And then I'd wanted to go into environmental science, you know, a lot of things. So for me how it came about was, I always knew I wanted to well, after year 12, I knew I wanted to get into marketing, because for me, I was really interested in combining the creative side, as well as the kind of more analytical problem solving side of me. I felt like marketing was a good place for me to start, because I wanted to, in the future, work in places with social impact, so I thought that building up the skills in marketing was right for me. Then I went to uni, and did a random advertising unit, and that's when I found out about this industry that I've never really heard about. So that's how I came about this career.
Wendy
I vaguely remember you having like, an existential crisis in year 12, not really knowing what you wanted to do. You were just so like, I guess, unsure if you want to go down to the design route...
Tracy
Yeah, I was pretty set. Honestly, I think I will say from year 7 to year 10. I was like almost certain that I was going to get into fashion design. And then I had this crisis where I was like, Oh my God, I'm not good enough for the industry. It's so cut throat, like, why am I even pursuing this? So a little bit of self doubt, but also, I think it was my Asian values kicking in, like, you know, where's the stability in this and what not. But then I do realise that maybe I wasn't passionate enough for it to become a career as well. It was something I wanted to do as a hobby so I didn't end up pursuing it. And I don't regret it. In hindsight, I love working in advertising, and I really do not regret going into fashion because knowing what the industry is like now, I'm glad I didn't.
Wendy
Yeah, thinking back to it. I think in high school, we didn't even get exposure to the range of different types of creative subjects. Yeah, I, unlike Tracy, kind of always knew that I wanted to do something in the creative industry, I just didn't know what shape or form that could take. And it wasn't until I attended a UTS open day that I understood what visual communications was, which is what I studied in uni. And basically, it's graphic design. But you go through high school, not really knowing what subjects can lead to what types of different career pathways, and all we did was textiles, and like visual arts, but that is not an indication of what's possible in the creative industry. And I was really driven by, I guess, my ambition to do something creative. And so that's when I went out and searched for extra information, because I felt like we didn't get that at high school. And so that's why I feel like open days are so useful.
Tracy
Did you feel like you knew anyone in the creative industry? Like did you have a point of reference?
Wendy
No, not at all. I think my only point of reference was actually my oldest sister. And I remember learning like Photoshop from her in year 6. And I think that's what started it. I think that was the first time I actually understood what was possible with the programs that were out there and how I could guide my own kind of direction to design. But I think nobody from our school ended up going into design except myself and one other person who went into interior design. And so I guess it was a really big and scary move. It was because it was like this massive world of the unknown. And there was no evidence that I could see at face value of people around me who were in that industry. Like everyone I knew around me, who had left high school and gone to university was kind of in like commerce, business, you know, physio. And so I was like, 'Is it a big risk going into this industry?' But I took a leap of faith anyway, partially because I wanted to prove my parents wrong because they didn't believe that this career was a traditional Asian career that would ensure that I would have stability and a good financially secure future.
Tracy
Yeah, I feel like for our parents, they probably put the emphasis more on stability in a career and they're not really exposed to all these other careers like in design or whatnot, because that's just not the world they came from. And they just want to know that you're going to be okay financially. I think because they spent their entire lives working so hard in a new country as migrants, that that's their priority. And I think that's pressure, do you feel, like they put on us?
Wendy
Yeah kind of. I just wanted to take a step back and look at this from the perspective of traditional versus non-traditional Asian careers. And just want to disclaimer, we're defining these "traditional" Asian careers, and I say that with quotation marks, in the context of our own lived experiences as Chinese-Vietnamese Australians. So our perceptions and everything we say about what we understand of them are just through our experiences and not, I guess, factual.
Tracy
Factual to us, not to everybody.
Wendy
But yeah, I think the way that we define traditional Asian careers, some examples are like doctors, pharmacists, physio...
Tracy
I think it's like careers that you've been exposed to as a child, or your parents have been exposed to, like they had friends' children who went into this career, or they knew people growing up that went into this career. More Western?...
Wendy
Yeah and I think you talked about before how when our parents came to Australia, they only really knew so much. And so they didn't have a clear understanding of what the education system was like.
Tracy
Yeah, I think it was almost like they looked around and their peers and was like, what worked for them, right? Because they're starting from scratch in a new country. So they're like, Oh, my friend's daughter went into pharmacy, and she's successful. She's happy. So I want to tell my daughter to do that, because that's what I know will work. That's the formula that will work. They're not exposed to anything else.
Wendy
That's that's exactly what happened to me. I remember quite vividly my mum saying to me, 'What are you going to choose for uni?' and she floated the idea of becoming a pharmacist to me. Obviously, it went in one ear and out the other. But it was because she had heard somebody else in the area, her daughter's had opened up like multiple pharmacies, and they were really, really successful. And so I guess my mum kind of saw the same vision for me. But, you know, obviously, I feel like it was a passing thought so I totally dismissed it.
Tracy
Did you feel any other pressures from your parents?
Wendy
Not necessarily. I think for me, particularly, I was, I'm quite lucky because I'm the third child of four girls. And so my two older sisters kind of set the pace and the tone for what was expected. It was always unspoken, that, you know, we would have to work hard and commit to our studies as much as we can. But my parents never outwardly said, like, you need to get you know, A's, or you need to get 90%. Plus, in all of your exams and whatnot. I put the pressure on myself, because I saw how hardworking my sisters were, and so I think they set the tone for me. But I don't know what it's like being the eldest child.
Tracy
Yeah, so I'm the eldest child, and I was the first in family to go to university, my parents didn't make it past year 10 high school in Vietnam. So everything, everything was very new for them. But I'm very lucky in the sense that when I grew up, in high school and university, they were just like, whatever makes you happy, do it. They never put the pressure for me to pursue, I don't know, traditional Asian careers. So not the stereotype that people think like tiger parents or what not. But yeah, I never got that pressure. But I think the pressure that I felt was like Wendy said, something that I put on myself, as the eldest child. I felt like I wanted to do well or be successful to make my parents happy and feel reassured that their hard work has not gone to waste almost. And I wanted to be a good role model for my two younger sisters. So I think I put the pressure to work hard, and achieve the things I wanted to achieve, but they didn't put the pressure into what that was like, what career that was that I wanted to pursue.
Wendy
I totally resonate with that because I think if you ask a lot of people in our particular area in South-West Sydney, what motivates them and what drives them to work hard, a lot of people would probably say, for their parents, or to be able to earn enough or have a stable career so that they can create a future for their parents that is not so difficult.
Tracy
Yeah, this is interesting. It reminds me of a story. I had a friend from overseas that was kind of like, 'Why are you living for your parents?' But I think it's just a difference in culture. I'm like, What do you mean? I have to live for my parents, they play such a big role in who I am and I think as children of migrant parents, there's just such a big connection there.
Wendy
Yeah, I think because you understand the struggles that your parents went through. To a certain degree, we will never understand the complete story, I think. But when you think about when they came to Australia, them having nothing, not even being able to speak like a word of English and how they've gotten by just doing like shift work and all that kind of stuff. It's it's kind of mind blowing, and you feel like the least that you can do is to give them peace of mind that you're going to be okay, as well. And I think that translates so kind of strongly into the decisions we make throughout our careers as well.
Tracy
Yeah, I agree. Was money a big consideration for you because of this?
Wendy
Yeah, I think to a certain degree, money is always in the back of my mind, in all the decisions that I make, not just when I was kind of trying to decide what to do. And I guess the salary expectations that was attached to the career, but also thinking about money equals success in Asian culture. And I think that's what gives parents peace of mind that you're doing something that is going to guarantee a future that is stable. Do you agree?
Tracy
I think so. Like the emphasis on money was so big, maybe because personally, I didn't come from money, my family didn't come from money. So that's always been something that's played in my the back of my mind, or well actually, the forefront of my mind, throughout my entire university degree and going into work as well. Money is such a big factor for me, because of that expectation to make money.
Wendy
Yeah and I think there's an emphasis that's placed on it as you're growing up not to be so lavish with your money, kind of like spending here and there, but kind of being more mindful about taking your earnings a bit more seriously, and putting investing them into things that actually matter. And I think that was kind of a big lesson for me, because we started working from so young, but then that mentality translated into even my career now and the decisions that I make when I'm like changing jobs, for example. I don't think it's ever going to be the one thing that will make me change a career but it will be one of the driving factors where I will think about it with a lot of importance. So it has a lot of weight.
Tracy
Yeah, I think I had put pressure on myself to hit that higher bracket of salary. And comparing myself to my peers, I would be so stressed at the beginning of my career, like, Oh my God, I'm not making enough money, I'm nowhere near the 100k mark, and maybe I'm behind, maybe I'm in the wrong industry. Advertising doesn't pay a lot like that's a fact. And I would be like, if only I went into finance, if only I went into accounting, like the more traditional careers, I'll be making more money, but then I realised after that, but it's not all about money. Like, yes, that was a big factor in my upbringing from my parents, but it's more so what makes you happy. I realised that my career isn't a race, that I don't have to compare myself to other people who are in different industries. You can't even compare that, it's just two completely different experiences. So definitely, it's an important factor. But it's not the only factor to consider.
Wendy
Yeah, if you know me, well, you will know, I'm quite stubborn with my viewpoint, that money shouldn't be what determines your future. I'm really, really big on that. But it doesn't mean that it doesn't play an important factor as well. I think knowing your worth and knowing what you should be paid is probably the bigger lesson here. And growing up, nobody teaches you about what to expect from your industry, what to expect from your career. And you'll probably get all of this information from Googling but nobody teaches you about like finances, there's no handbook to tell you.
Tracy
Our parents don't have experience with earning salaries, they work shift work. They get paid cash in hands on times, you know, it's hour by hour so even the idea of getting paid a salary is completely new. Like I didn't know what a salary was, which is crazy thinking about it now.
Wendy
Yeah, I think this brings me back to the point of us talking about how our parents only really came to Australia like 20 or 30 years ago. And in the years that they came, they were kind of like figuring things out from scratch. And so us going to university and understanding that education system is a self-guided path, and so understanding anything in life, we don't really have the luxury of being able to tap into our parents' knowledge about these things. They may be knowledgeable in other areas, but I think everything about university, salaries and working in Australia, it's much harder for us because we have to figure it out for ourselves.
Tracy
Yeah, agree and I think I just feel so lucky that we didn't have to go through the struggle that they went through and that we have so many opportunities here. It is a privilege compared to them coming to Australia with nothing.
Wendy
Yeah, thinking back I think a lot of my decision making growing up, even just throughout high school, like you're in your teenage years yet I think there was this kind of ambition for ourselves to really back ourselves as well. And I think that's what drove me to really search for opportunities so that my parents wouldn't have to suffer any longer. I know, it sounds like super negative, dramatic. But like thinking about how I grew up and the struggles that we faced financially, and especially with four girls in the family as well, that was really, really tough. And I just wanted to do as much as I could to alleviate the stress of my parents. And so how that unfolded was, I made sure that I went out and looked for opportunities, such as like, applying for scholarships, and stuff like that, that would kind of put me a step ahead, but also give my parents kind of less stress.
Tracy
Yeah, for us, Wendy and I went to a predominantly Asian or Asian dominated school. I don't know what the stats are.
Wendy
I would say like 96%. That's the statistician in me.
Tracy
Yeah, Wendy, the historian, says 96%.
Wendy
Don't quote me on that.
Tracy
Yeah. Don't sue us. But yeah, I would say majority Asian. I don't know where I'm going with this.
Wendy
Well, majority of them were Asian. And I think a lot of them will probably -
Tracy
I remember where I'm going with this. So we always had, I think the advice going into university was get out of your bubble, and also apply to as many scholarships as possible to get into universities. And we were from a low SES background as well. So I think we had that kind of mantra drilled into us.
Wendy
Yeah, I think there's this stigma around scholarships being like, only if you came from a really, really terrible background, or if you really, really struggling, but I think what obtaining a scholarship really taught me was like, apply for anything and everything, obviously, within reason.
Tracy
Nah, apply for it all.
Wendy
But you never know what opportunities are going to come your way. And I think that's like the moral of this story, really. And without that scholarship, I wouldn't have been able to do things such as going on exchange. Yep, the topic is back guys - exchange, have a shot every time we talk about exchange. But Tracy and I both went on exchange to Europe, as we mentioned in the last episode, but that really helped me grow beyond the Fairfield bubble. And I think this concept is that a lot of people who live around this area, don't really leave kind of 2166 or beyond until they go to university.
Tracy
Yeah, I think having the scholarships kind of opened an entire world. I feel like having a scholarship was one of the best things to happen because I had that opportunity to explore more, work a little bit less, and then explore the world and what not. And yeah, and just reassured us when we went to university, as well. So what was the transition like for you from going to high school to university?
Wendy
I was so nervous, because I was obviously going into a course where I didn't have any other friends from high school. And you know, when you have friends, or people that you know, you kind of stick to your comfort zone, and you've got like a safe space or safe group to hang with. But I literally had to start from scratch. I had no friends. And in design, if you ever went to UTS Building 6, I know there's a meme about this, but there was this kind of, I don't know, standard that you had to meet of like how you would dress like very, very hipster. And I obviously did not have the wardrobe to live up to those standards. I think it was in a UTS hoodie, like all the time. But yeah, it was quite an overwhelming experience, not only because of the travel, like we have to travel an hour into the city to get into uni, but just the social anxiety of meeting people and people that I knew were probably not from South-West Sydney.
Tracy
Yeah, like for me, there was nobody from our school that went into marketing at USYD. I was always the minority in the room as well. Especially in first year, I really noticed I don't know where my people are, nobody knows where I'm from, and yeah, there's no one really from the area. So it's really intimidating.
Wendy
Yeah, and I think, you know, as Asians you kind of gravitate towards your own, because there's a level of comfort that they understand the background that you've come from. And so your world views are probably more aligned than anybody else who's from other parts of Sydney as well. And I think that is such a sigh of relief, when you can find your people when you're going through something really new in life. But when you can't find your people, you kind of have this identity crisis of like, what am I doing here? Is this the right course for me? Do I even have permission to be here? Am I good enough? And it was also because when you come out of high school to uni, you obviously are going to introduce yourself, and where you came from, and what school you came from. People ask you what ATAR you got, what subjects you did. And I couldn't really say that I did any design subjects other than textiles. And my textiles project was absolute trash. So I had like zero confidence in myself that I was going to be a successful designer. But I think I eventually got over that when I started to just focus on myself rather than looking at other people and how they compared to me. And that was like a turning point. And I think it really happened when I went on exchange because I realised like, I have a place in this world just as much as other people do and a place in this industry as well.
Tracy
Yeah, feels like maybe we have to work a little bit harder, because we didn't have people to relate to as quickly. And we didn't have point of references, like I don't know parents or family who went into the industries that we did so we had to kind of do the research from scratch.
Wendy
Yeah, you raise a good point, because I think it goes back to what I was saying, when you asked me the question of was there anyone that I really looked up to before going into design. And honestly, there was nobody. And when I got into uni, that was the first time I was exposed to like industry designers. And I think that's so important for expanding your views of the industry itself. Because you really learn so much through other people's lived experiences. And we always had industry designers coming in and talking about the types of jobs that they do. And there was such a variation and so much that I didn't know about, I don't know if it was the same for you in marketing.
Tracy
Yeah, I think so. We had people from the industry come in and that really opened my view to what the industry was like. I do feel like there are so many opportunities at university out there for you to pursue, like, there are so many networking events with industry, there's internships to take, you can volunteer, you can do mentoring, there's just so much out there for you to take, you just have to say yes to everything. And I feel like I always say that university is a time for you to say yes to everything. You just have the time to experiment and nothing really matters. I would say there's no consequences. You're not working full time, you're not supporting your family, I don't know, but you can usually say yes, and experiment with everything. And I think that is such a special time, especially once you're young and learning, and for people who might not have exposure to all these opportunities growing up.
Wendy
I think I can definitely resonate with that, because I did a lot of mentoring myself when I was in uni. And I do remember a big driver of that was just being able to kind of inspire others who went through the same uni program as me, and be able to kind of like give back to the community. I think that was such a big kind of passion of mine, during university. And so I think, you know, if you can put up your hand to do those things, if you're still in university, if we have any younger listeners, definitely do because I think it opens your world up to so many other opportunities and experiences that you never probably would have thought about, especially growing up in our area, like you don't know what you don't know, until you allow all these things to come into your space.
Tracy
Yeah and I think the situations will be uncomfortable, if you feel like maybe you're the only one in the room, but just put yourself out there because you will learn and you will get to know people that you've never had met before and get all these diverse experiences and perspectives as well.
Wendy
I think bring that back to how we feel in the industry. Now I think we still feel that to a certain degree, we're still going through these experiences. But what's different is probably we're probably less shy about kind of confronting those uncomfortable experiences and, and how they surface up in our industry lives as well. And I think we kind of go through this cycle of growth, where something uncomfortable happens, makes us question our identity, we learn so much about ourselves, and then we start to challenge what's happening around us. And then it starts again when something new comes up. And I think that's going to happen throughout the different like chapters of your life and the milestones that you hit. And I think where we are now, just reflecting back on our entire experience, I think we've probably felt lost a lot of the time from high school to uni to industry but I think what I want to say is that if you believe in yourself and take every opportunity that you can get, I think you'll open up so many valuable pathways for yourself to explore.
Tracy
Yeah I agree. I think why we want to do this podcast as well, is to share these experiences with people who might not also have a point of reference in coming from migrant families. So I think that is a nice spot to bring out episode to a close. So, as we do every episode, we've got three dinner table questions to ask each other.
Wendy
Woohoo!
Tracy
So, Wendy, what is the best piece of advice you’ve ever received?
Wendy
I don’t remember who told me this so I can’t credit, so it’s going to be a dash anon, but the best piece of advice that I have received and have stuck with me every day since I’ve been told this advice is, to prepare for the worst but hope for the best. I think what that means is going into every situation prepared for all types of scenarios, and the worst-case scenario. And if the worst-case scenario does happen, you are prepared for it, and you’re not shocked.
Tracy
It just helps with anxiety, it’s a good tip.
Wendy
Yeah definitely. I think in the nature consulting, there’s a lot of anxiety inducing moments so knowing you’ve prepared for every situation is a relief. How about you?
Tracy
I think my one is to back yourself. You have worth, negotiate for your pay, negotiate for external training, back yourself in your industry because you work hard and you do deserve those things. They’re almost a bare minimum thing you should really fight for. It’s really good advice I received from a mentor. She made a good point that if I were a male, I wouldn’t even be thinking of these things. Like ‘Should I be getting paid more? Should I ask for this? Am I being a burden?’. But really having the confidence in yourself and what you’re worth and going for those thigns and asking for them.
Wendy
Second question, what does ‘me time’ look like for you?
Tracy
I love a good me time. I feel like Sundays are perfect me time days. I’m extraverted but I definitely need a day or something to recover and do things that make me happy. For me, my me time activities are always activities that I feel very zen, like I go into flow and I lose track of time, so that’s like things like reading, sewing, even catching up on YouTube. Things where I can just be by myself, in my room, I can just light a candle, and be zen.
Wendy
Yeah, it’s like creating the right ambiance to put yourself in that state of mind where you’re relaxed and not so consumed by what’s happening on social media, what’s happening in a work context, like that’s really important to me and similar to you, I try to do things that allow me to have creative manifestation. In my day to day, even though I’m in the creative industry, sometimes it can get quite same-same so doing things that are quite practical, hands on. So, things like making jewellery for my side business @finbywendy, doing stuff like that, but also exercise has become such a big part of my life as well because it puts you in a state where you’re just so focused on exercise.
Tracy
Yeah, I love a good exercise. I feel like recently, or in the past year, I’ve become more addicted to the feeling of feeling good after exercise, rather than feeling like exercise results in body changes. It’s more so the feeling of feeling good after exercising.
Wendy
Yeah, you feel like invigorated and ready to take on the world. Specifically if you run at night time and it’s really really cold – that’s a tip by the way.
Tracy
Alright, the last question is, what is something obscure people don’t know about you?
Wendy
So, I just have so many interesting facts.
Tracy
The flat head.
Wendy
I was hoping you wouldn’t bring this up but I’ll admit it, my head is not completely round and I know people say it’s normal. Nobody’s head is completely round or oval or whatever but if you feel my head, I’ve got a major dent in my head. It kind of freaks people out. So, if you see me next time and haven’t felt my head yet, you’re more than welcome. What about you, Tracy?
Tracy
I think mine is a bit of a family secret. So, apparently my family are descendants of the Trieu dynasty from China. We’re apparently the twenty something generation of the Trieu dynasty. If you look it up on Wikipedia, you’ll see a page. Not with our names on it, but you’ll see our last name and that’s the story of my family. They’re pretty adamant we came from royalty, but obviously someone lost all the money along the way because I don’t feel royal, I don’t have anything. But yeah, that’s a fun fact.
Wendy
So that wraps up episode two, thank you for tuning in and listening to our journey of pursuing non-traditional careers
Tracy
Yeah, we’d love to hear your thoughts as well. What is the best piece of career advice you’ve ever received? So put that in the comments?
Wendy
In the comments. I think there’s a Spotify…
Tracy
I don’t know, we’re still working this out but somewhere you’ll see a question, just answer it. Or go onto our Instagram @aseatatourtable.podcast to join in on the conversation.
Wendy
Yep, slide into our DMs and you don’t have to just answer this question, you can make suggestions about what you want to hear more about. We’re open to anything and everything.
Tracy
And for our Sydneysider friends, Happy Freedom Day.
Wendy
Happy Freedom Week! I think we hit 80% earlier this week. But yeah, I hope everyone is enjoying their freedom but still staying safe and not getting complacent.
Tracy
Yeah, well tune in for our next episode. Thank you everybody. Bye!