Building Brand ‘You’
EPISODE 14 — 13 MAY 2022
“You have an opportunity to create a point of difference so that you don’t just look like an ordinary resume or an ordinary LinkedIn profile and people gain more curiosity about you.”
ABOUT THE EP
What is your presence in your absence? What do people say about you when you're not around? In this episode, we chat about building our personal brands, being authentic, how we see ourselves vs. how others see us, the importance of storytelling, and redefining our elevator pitches.
THE DETAILS
Increasing our self-awareness with the Johari Window Exercise
The importance of having a strong personal brand
How being Asian Australian influences our personal brand
The principles of a good brand
What we do to continually evolve our personal brands
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Wendy
Hey, friends, welcome back to our poddy. Today, we have a special episode that's all about personal brand. So getting to know yourself, how others see you, and all that kind of good stuff. So we're gonna dive straight into it. Yeah, maybe...Tracy, let's start off with like a definition of your personal brand and what it means.
Tracy
Yeah, I think before we even go into that, I think it's interesting with personal brand, there's a layer for us about being Asian Australian as well, like, what does our personal brand mean in the workplace, but on top of that, we have a cultural identity think about as well. So I think it's interesting to think about it in that way as well. In terms of the definition of a personal brand, so your personal brand captures who you are, what you stand for, and what skills you bring to the table is determined by two types of perceptions, how you see yourself and how others see you. So it's kind of like the reputation you have within your industry, your workplace, or I guess even in your personal world.
Wendy
Yeah, I think what you brought up earlier is interesting, because I think a lot of people think of personal brand as, like in the workplace, you have one identity, and then beyond the workplace, you have another identity. But when I was doing like research about this, I think what I noticed was, you can't be genuine if you have two separate personalities. So I personally feel like with my personal brand, I try and be as true to myself no matter what circumstance or environment I'm in. But in light of, you know, the types of perceptions, so how you see yourself and how others see you, Tracy and I decided to do a little bit of an exercise before this episode to kind of ground how we see each other, and how we see ourselves. So, this is something called the Johari Window exercise and it's actually something that I picked up at work at my previous workplace and this was something that I did when I first started and I did it with someone that started at the same time with me. And it was really strange, because I didn't even know this person, but I was kind of making assumptions on my first impressions of them. And that's also part of your personal brand.
Tracy
I think how people perceive you when they first meet you as well. That's quite important, too. Yeah.
Wendy
So, you know, Tracy and I know each other really well. And during this exercise, we were, you know, in a cafe, and what we did was we have a list of words. And these lists of words are kind of words that describe like your personality, such as like, brave, friendly, but also things to do with like your attitude. So are you self assertive? Are you modest? So we're going to put a link to those lists of words that we used. But this is an exercise that we did separately for ourselves. And then five words that were described for each other.
Tracy
Yeah. So what we'll do is we'll now compare our results to see whether how we perceive ourselves matches up how another person perceives us actually and what overlaps are or if we're, like, completely different from what we think people perceive us as. Yeah. And to notes for the listeners, we haven't discussed this the results. Yeah, so we're finding our live on the podcast.
Wendy
Yep. Fresh.
Tracy
Yeah.
Wendy
Okay, so should I go first?
Tracy
Yeah we'll do Wendy first so you can read out your five descriptive words for yourself.
Wendy
Okay, so I chose independent, organised, confident, dependable, and able.
Tracy
Ooh.
Wendy
What did you choose for me?
Tracy
Okay. So should I say my one? Or do you want to describe why you chose those ones?
Wendy
Okay, maybe I'll describe why I chose mine. As I was going through this process, I was kind of thinking of like, am I choosing these? (I was having this existential crisis as well whilst I was doing this) I was like, am I choosing these based off what people have told me how they see me? That was one thing. And then the other thing was like, am I also choosing this based on how I want others to perceive me?
Tracy
Right. But it should be how you yourself sees it.
Wendy
Yeah. So after a lot of thought, that's kind of why I came to these five things. And it's almost like, things that I really value within myself and pride myself on. And also how I wish others would see me as well.
Tracy
I think yeah, yeah. Cool. So do I read out my ones? I'm very excited because it feels like it was playing bingo. Like when you were reading a word, I was like "Yes, I've got that one. I've got that one."
Wendy
Maybe you should read what you had for me.
Tracy
So I got four out of five of those words. I know you or something like that.
Wendy
Oh my god, now I have pressure!
Tracy
No it's fine. There's no pressure, no judgement, judgement free zone. Again, so for Wendy, I put bold, confident, independent, organised and dependable. So the only difference is bold. Right? Is that right?
Wendy
Yeah, what did I have?
Tracy
You had able. But I had bold, but the rest of them, we were aligned.
Wendy
Wow. That's crazy.
Tracy
That's so interesting. So how about we discuss... I feel like maybe your perception of yourself and my perception of you is quite aligned, which is a good thing, right? Is that how you think you are? Is that what you're showing off to other people?
Wendy
Yeah.
Tracy
But there's a difference, which is you took able and I put bold, so maybe we can talk about the difference?
Wendy
Yeah, I think the word able, we don't use it in a way to describe people very often. But when I read the word I was like, I like to think of myself as very capable of doing anything, hence why I chose that word. And I think the biggest thing is like, I'm always willing to give something a go and that's where that came from. Yeah.
Tracy
Interesting. Yeah. When I read bold, that was one of the first ones I saw. I feel like yes, that's Wendy, because I feel like that confidence, being bold, being brave, I think that's very you. For me. I feel like you're very, like, you're kind of just going to do stuff, like who cares what people think? You're like, you take risk and you're like, you're not afraid to be yourself, which is why I picked that one.
Wendy
Yeah, yeah. I feel like it's the way that you describe it is almost like, an a quality within me that you admire. Yeah. Whereas 'able' kind of speaks more to like, how much effort I put into something and how I measure myself against that effort. Yeah, yeah. But they kind of synonyms of each other.
Tracy
I think so, like they kind of overlap. Pretty interesting, actually.
Wendy
Yeah. So should we jump to yours, Tracy?
Tracy
Yeah, I think the idea is you deal with a lot of people as well.
Wendy
Yeah. You can do it with like one other person. Or you can do it like, several individuals or within a team as well.
Tracy
Yeah. Yeah. Right. I'm nervous. So kind of my thinking was, I was looking at these adjectives. I think there's like - I'm not even gonna count. There's a lot of them and I always kind of struggle with these because I'm, like, a bit indecisive. So I'm like, what represents me or whatnot. So the ones I have is energetic, independent, organised, sentimental and intelligent.
Wendy
Dang it, wait, say them again.
Tracy
Energetic, independent, organised, sentimental and intelligent.
Wendy
I got two...
Tracy
I've got an explanation because I feel like some of these words wasn't exactly what I wanted. But the words I was like, I feel like would describe me a bit more. Yeah, so energetic, that kind of makes sense to me. Independent - that's something I pride myself in...organised... sentimental... Intelligence - I wasn't sure. But it was more like being book smart or like being like, trying to be well-read and things like that. Yeah, that's all I would like to be.
Wendy
Yeah. Well, I what I had for you was trustworthy, energetic, intelligent, reflective, and giving.
Tracy
Oh, that's interesting. I think those words I also did think about, but I wasn't sure I was like, I don't know if that's like, how people would describe me. Like, what is Tracy? Like, would those words come up?
Wendy
Yeah, I do think there are a lot of synonyms that I've used, that are very similar to your list. So like, reflective, I think, I thought about putting sentimental down as well. But I was just thinking about like yourself and your practices that you do in order to reflect, I feel like that's a big thing as to why I chose reflective. And then I think trustworthy in giving. I was kind of putting, there's more so from a friend perspective. But I also think those two things are like, two really big values of yours, and how you treat the people.
Tracy
Yeah, I actually looked at them. And I was like, I would love to be giving and trustworthy, but I wasn't sure if people see that in me. Maybe like little self doubt in my head.
Wendy
No, I definitely think so. Yeah. Yeah, I think it this just goes to show that like the way that you pick words in how you describe yourself versus others is really driven by how, like, you interpret the questions that come up in your brain. Like the things I was saying before about, like how you see yourself versus how others see you and are you picking words based on how you want others see you?
Tracy
Yeah, I think the thing I was thinking about was like, oh, if I picked that word, like, am I true to that word? Do I do those actions? Would people see that? And I think I was like, wasn't sure.
Wendy
Yeah, so I think that plays a factor into as well, like how you interpret this entire exercise within itself.
Tracy
That's really interesting. I feel like yeah, I want to do this exercise with more people to kind of get a sense of what they think I am.
Wendy
Yeah, I actually think that I find that people find it really easy to define me. But I have a lot of...or in just past conversations, I have people who have told me like, "Oh, you're really this, this and this." And it's reoccurring patterns that I'm seeing, or recurring themes that I'm seeing in conversations that I have with people. And even just like things like, my visual style as a person, I think is really obvious. And maybe is that because I have a very strong personal brand that I carry around consistently and is that the reason why it's so easy to define me? As opposed to someone who doesn't openly express their wants, their needs, or what drives them? And therefore, it would be harder for people around them to describe them?
Tracy
Yeah, that's a good point. I feel like if I were to look at my friends, and like, who has a good personal brand? I would say you, because I think you're very consistent and you're very expressive in terms of the things you stand for your identity. And like, it comes with, like, I guess confident was one of your words right? And I think you're very confident in yourself. So I think that makes it like, it's very distinct people can go, "Oh, that's so Wendy." You know. I was like, "Oh, look at this. It's so Wendy. Like it's like almost, people just understand. And when they say Wendy, they have this picture of you.
Wendy
Yeah. And that's exactly what your personal brand is, right. And I think there are so many different scenarios in which your personal brand can come into play. It's like, like you said, what crosses people's minds when your name pops up and you're not present in the room?
Tracy
Yeah, I think it's like what people say about you when you're not in the room. Yeah, that's how I would describe personal brand.
Wendy
Yeah, the way I framed it was like, what is your presence in your absence?
Tracy
Yes, yes, I like that.
But it's also like, what shows up if someone was to Google you, that's also your personal brand.
Everyone, please google yourselves. Like, make sure your digital print is like what you want it to be?
Wendy
It doesn't mean it has to be like, completely clean. But it's like questioning if it's true to who you are. Or if there are things on there that you should care about?
Tracy
Like, I don't know, like, maybe a personal Twitter account that's, like, you know, public. Yeah, exactly. It has things that you don't want to show.
Wendy
Yeah, well, that's massive nowadays, like digital presence is really important when you think about like how people get recruited for jobs. My last job I got recruited like online through LinkedIn, and you know, if people are looking for you, they're probably really making assumptions about the type of person you are, whether or not you're a good fit for their company. So that's more so from a career standpoint, right? And then a little stat for peeps. So from the Learn hub in 2020, this step came through 85% of US recruiters and HR professionals say that an employee's online reputation influences their hiring decisions, at least to some extent. And 70% of US recruiters and professionals have rejected candidates based on information they found online. Well, yeah. And obviously that's US based, but I think it's very, it's very true to Australia, right? So yeah, that's just some stats.
Tracy
I know I Google people - new starters. Like if I do it, I'm sure people do it for me, too. Like when I know a new starter about to start in the company, I always has Google sure see what their history is. Or if I'm like, hearing like, "Oh, we're going to interview this person?" I would Google them as well.
Wendy
And you look at like, things like, where did they work in the past, if they have a website...
Tracy
If their social media profiles like is public? Yeah. And what that looks like what their lifestyle looks like as well. I think, as humans, we're very curious. and we can't help forming these judgments as well.
Wendy
Yeah. So yeah, that's just a little tip. Google yourself, make sure it's cleansed.
Tracy
What you want it to be, you know, you think of like a prospective employee googling you, you don't want pictures from Bebo coming up? If it's like not what you want to see. Although Bebo was shut down, so who knows?
Wendy
Maybe it's good to talk about like, why personal brand is so important. I know, we've touched on a couple of points already. But let's talk about the opportunity that exists if you are able to build a strong brand. So, I always see it as an opportunity to differentiate myself from others. Not necessarily to be like, "Oh, I'm better than this person." But it's almost like you have an opportunity to create a point of difference so that you don't just look like an ordinary resume or an ordinary LinkedIn profile and people gain more curiosity about you. And I actually think that it helps you like create connections and build networks as well. Because if you have a strong personal brand other people are able to talk about you if you're not there as well. "Oh, I have a friend or I know a colleague. That is like really good at this. Let me know refer you to them." And it's easier for them to tell your story on your behalf.
Tracy
Yeah, that's true. I think it just opens up a lot of opportunities when you have a good personal brand in work. I think it's about having like a distinct perspective, or being a distinct person and standing out, like not standing out, but just like being different, like being yourself, you know, so when people talk about you, they can refer you to opportunities that they feel will fit you.
Wendy
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I also think about it from a freelancing point of view, because obviously, I do freelance outside of work, right. And it's almost like your work is reflective of your design skills. So if people can see that you've got a very strong personal brand, which also speaks to the type of work that you do, and also your process and your work ethic, and they can trust you, you can build stronger clientele, people will refer you. And, you know, there's that leads to, obviously greater successes.
Tracy
Yeah and I think that applies, like, even if you don't realise you work in a company, it's like building a support system around you want people who will want to champion you, as a person, as an employee within a workspace. If you have a connection with people, you have a strong personal brand, and they are along the journey with you. I think they will like you know, speak out for you. Look out for you.
Wendy
Yeah. Noting that, like we've talked a lot about, like, why it's good, why it's important. I feel like what scares people is like, where do I start? How do I get into it? What makes a good brand? Yeah. So maybe we should talk about like, how we have developed our own brand and what we, I guess what principles are important to us that kind of make our brands?
Tracy
How would you say, what is your brand? Like? If people were to ask you that... it's a really hard question, I think but like, when you go "Describe yourself." Like, what did you actually tell them?
Wendy
Okay, so I think for me, there are several things that make up a personal brand, right? It's if someone was to ask you to describe yourself in three words, what would those three words be? So very similar to the exercise we did before. But also those three words can relate to your like design practice, as well, or your practices a person or your work ethic, or your approach or your values. The other thing that I think about is like, "What is my elevator pitch?" So if I've got 30 seconds to convince someone what my story is, what I'm passionate about, what would I say? And then if I was to refer them to a space to get to know me better, where would that be? Would have been my LinkedIn profile? Would it be my portfolio? So those are the three things that I think of. What about you?
Tracy
I think, for me, I think about the actions that accompany your words. So I think your personal brand, for me, I think it's just built more on doing rather than saying. So I could tell people that I am X, Y, Z, but if my actions don't match up to that, it's not consistent with that, like, that's not a strong personal brand, or you want to be doing actions that actually fit what the person you're trying to portray is. So if you're think you're like a reliable person, be the on meetings on time, you know, say if you want to do a task, do it. Don't slack off on things like that. It's more like showing, showing it I guess, and not doing it or not saying it.
Wendy
Yeah. So I think it's two things. It's kind of like, what are the things or like resources that you have on hand to let people know what your brand is all about? Yeah. And then what comes after is like, do you actually live up to those?
Tracy
Yeah, like, I always think like, especially in a work context, every opportunity, I have to interact with another person, or clients or a team, I'm always using it as a opportunity to show who I am as a person, that I'm not just going to do something and just do it. Like, I'm going to take that opportunity to add some personality into it to like, show that I'm reliable or show that I'm, I don't know, interesting, or whatever it is. Use it as an opportunity to build your personal brand. It doesn't have to be some big thing, like having a portfolio, but it can be like the little things like interactions with people, how you portray yourself in meetings, how you follow up after meetings, how you deliver work as well.
Wendy
Yeah, I think that's a difference between us, like, my career, or my industry is very driven by the things that you create. And therefore, that's why I've put so much emphasis on like the words that I write or the website that I build, because I know that that's how a lot of people within the industry make judgments about me. Yeah, as a designer. Whereas for you, it's about communication?
Tracy
It's about you as a person. Yeah. Communication, how you work with people your working style.
Wendy
Yeah. Thinking about like what we said earlier about our Asian Australian experience. How do you think that integrates into your personal brand?
Tracy
Oh, I think about this a lot, actually. Because I feel I don't know if it's pressure but like as an Asian Australian woman in a workplace that's dominated by white people, I feel a bit of pressure to fight those stereotypes they might have. Like, if I'm quiet in a meeting, I get a bit stressed because I'm like, oh my god, they're gonna think I'm the quiet Asian girl, you know, and I don't want to be that. And so it's like being myself, but also being aware of stereotypes that people might have of you if they don't know you. So I think there's a layer there that I'm conscious about, like, I don't know, like fighting any negative stereotypes. Perhaps? How about you?
Wendy
I think, for me, it's like, my work ethic primarily. So a lot of the time I think, like, am I working hard, right? Or like, why am I working so hard? And do people look at me and think like, oh, my gosh, she's so hard working, or she's like, putting 110% in or kind of being a team player as well. I think those are things that kind of... within my, like Asian Australian identity, a lesson that I learned or traits that I picked up through my parents, or they drilled it into me. And so it's starting to come out in like, the way that I work and the way that I portray myself to others. I think it's more so that than anything. I don't know, maybe because I've always been quite confident. Yeah. always just tried to like, push the boundaries. I don't think about, like stereotypes and stigma as much as you do. Yeah. Maybe because I've always just been unafraid. So I don't really question like, oh, do people think I'm being too quiet?
Tracy
Yeah, I feel like when I first meet people, and I'm the only Asian in the room, I feel the pressure to just like, always speak up or always say something or like, be personable? I don't know.
Wendy
I think that's good, though. Because you're, you're self aware so then you act on it. Yeah. Better than being submissive.
Tracy
Yeah, I guess so But also, it's like, if you're submissive, that's okay. But the fact that like, I feel like because I'm Asian, I don't want to be pessimistic, because that's what people might perceive of me. I don't known, it's very complex - the thought that run in my mind sometimes. But yeah, and also, I think I, there's an alternate identity there from being from South West Sydney. People think you're like, from the hood, you know, like we are from the hood. We're like, you know, from the area. But there's also connotations that are sometimes attached to where you're from, as well, that I think that also plays a layer in my identity, like being from South West Sydney. Like now, I'm very proud to be from South West Sydney. But I feel like when I was early on in my work life, I felt the need to like, tone down my South West Sydney accent speak a little bit more proper, you know?
Wendy
Yeah, that's really interesting. Because I feel like, I've just been, not the industry for so long, but I've worked through those voices in my head that I just like, don't really let it get to me anymore.
Tracy
Yeah, me too.
Wendy
I'm more just like confident myself that I'm being genuine, I'm doing my best. And that's enough.
Tracy
Yeah, I think so too. Like, now I like, I tell people, I'm a Westie kid, like, and I'm proud of that. You know, but I think I can definitely see my younger self being a bit more self conscious about that. But now I'm just like I am, who I am. And I know who I am.
Wendy
If anything, I think I'm just more honest and open about things that I'm passionate about, and how they relate to my age and Australian identity. So for example, as a part of my personal brand story, I always talk about how diversity and inclusion and accessibility is really important to me and it's something that I want to explore more in my design practice. And to add to that, if like, people ask me why I say that, you know, like, I grew up in South West Sydney, didn't always have the greatest opportunities, design is not a prominent career that is advertised, so that's why I'm so passionate about it. And you know, I'm in a space where I can make a difference, so why not embrace that? Yeah, you know, and that's a very big part of the story that I tell about myself, so that when people are talking to other people, they know that I'm really passionate about those things. And they can, you know, seek out opportunities for me.
Tracy
Yeah, I think it's really important to be self aware of who you are, what you stand for. So when you do get the chance to do that elevator pitch, or whatever it is, you actually talk about this thing that matters to you.
Wendy
So I think what would be useful is for us to kind of talk about...what are the things that make a personal brand good?
Tracy
Yeah. A side note. Yeah. Wendy is actually an expert in personal branding, and she has run workshops for her work before. She's an expert in this area.
Wendy
Okay. I wouldn't call myself an expert. But yeah, to give some context, like, just a side story. But when I first joined the Customer Experience Company, one of my colleagues was like, "Hey, do you want to run a workshop about personal brand?" And this was in my like, first two weeks, I remember. And I was like, Oh, sure. And she added more colour to the picture, she was just like, I think that you've got a really strong personal brand and you could just do a workshop on it. And I never thought of myself as having a strong personal brand. I never thought that it's something that I could teach others. It's something that I just naturally did. Because in uni, in my last year, I had to do a personal branding project. So I had to put like, my business cards, I had to define my story and that same thing, like if I was to define myself, in five words, what would those five words be? And if I was to describe what my design practices, what is it? So I think naturally, I've just kind of over time built that presence just through what I've been forced to do.
Tracy
Yeah, it's almost like your career. Like, I think you as a designer, you're almost like selling yourself. You have your style, your identity. Yeah.
Wendy
And I think through that, that's why she said, I have a strong brand presence. And it was the first time someone said something like that to me. So through that, I've done two workshops at work, very casual ones. But I've done a lot of research behind the scenes to kind of, like, put a framework around it, because otherwise, I'm just giving, like unsolicited advice. So yeah, that's where a lot of this stems from and why I'm so passionate about it, because it's just happened naturally for me. But it's something that people I didn't realise actually put a lot of pressure on themselves to want to do, but they just don't know where to start. So to hopefully give people a starting point, here are some like principles that make a good personal brand and we didn't make this up. I didn't write this, we got it from Forbes. But there are a couple of key messages that I hope will help people. So the first is to have a focus on one key message and to stick to it. So I think this is really important, because you don't want to be a jack of all trades. You don't want to have a different story to tell every single time and then it doesn't match up to what like people are seeing of you and then what other people think of you. And then if they meet in person, if you really think about it if two people meet, and then they both know you. But you've told a different story to both it's like, okay, so where's the correlation? So if you have one consistent message, it's obviously also a lot easier for yourself to tell that story and kind of own it and be confident in it.
Tracy
Yeah, it's like having the thing that you represents you and no one can tell that same story for you as well. The second point is be genuine. So I think this kind of relates, I think, to being genuine to yourself, you don't have to, then you'd have to keep track of all the messages. You're telling people if you're just being yourself. I think it's pretty obvious when someone's faking it. You can see right through it, you can see right through it when someone's trying to be someone they're not. And I think just makes you a more relatable person and more lovable person when you're just yourself, including the quirks including the flaws, you know, owning up to them. I feel like that actually makes you more and more personable rather than trying to be perfect because people can't relate to perfect people. Well, we're humans and humans make mistakes. Right.
Wendy
Exactly. And also, Sydney's a small place, people talk.
Tracy
Yeah, people talk. That's another thing, right? Personal brand, people talk. I feel like a good tip is like when you're moving jobs, go to places like don't burn bridges, because people talk.
Wendy
I think this speaks back to the point about what we were saying about like differentiating your work personality or your work personal brand versus your outside-of-work personal brand. I think if you separate them, it's feels a lot more disingenuous. But if you kind of carry yourself the same way you tell the same story, but kind of tweak it obviously for different settings, then I think that's a lot more genuine. I think this ties into the next principle, which is to tell the story. When you tell a story that is like, you know, genuine, and coming from the heart, I feel like people remember stories better than they do like, just like bullet point facts about yourself. Well, like a shopping list of all my good traits or my strengths and my weaknesses. If you tell a compelling story, then I think people are a lot more engaged. You're a lot more personable. And they remember stories.
Tracy
Yeah, like when I introduce myself to people or people ask me for who I am as a person, I always actually talk about family and I talk about, you know, my parents are migrants, they came to Australia from Vietnam. I'm an Asian Australian. I'm like from a migrant family first and family to go into university and that's why I'm so hard working. That's why I take all the opportunities I take. That's why I'm independent. So I always try to give you insight into who I am and not just say adjectives that describe who I am but tell a story behind it and why I am who I am.
Wendy
Yeah, like start the story. And then the adjectives will almost like describe themselves. I think we've talked about this one - be consistent. But I think what I want to call out here is to be consistent online and offline. So it's so easy to put words on a page. So easy to put, like, pictures up on a platform. Yeah. But if you can't speak to those in real life, then what's the purpose of them?
Tracy
Yes, yeah. The next one... so I think we've kind of touched it, they all kind of overlapping. Are you ready to fail? You know, you won't get a perfect personal brand the first time but you have to keep working at it be consistent, and then I think you'll eventually work out what it is that's unique to you. What's distinct and what can make you stand out from other people? Just experiment. I feel like if you don't know still who you are, just try out things.
Wendy
It's an ever evolving journey and we'll touch on this later in terms of like, how can you keep working at it? Like, it's not, "Okay, I have the perfect formula. And now it's time to go out and deliver it." Like it's not a pitch, it's honestly a lifelong journey. And even if people compliment my personal brand now, it doesn't mean that I'm not constantly trying to work at it and constantly trying to question myself to grow. Yeah, it's an ever evolving journey.
Tracy
Yeah, you're supposed to change as people. So that will change as well. So yeah, keep working at it.
Wendy
The next one is about creative, creating positive impact. I think this is mostly about like, having lasting impression on people. So if you walk away from a conversation with someone, what are they thinking about you? What emotions have you evoked within them? How do they kind of perceive you as a person once you've had, like, an interaction with them?
Tracy
I think there's a phrase, it's like, "People remember how you make them feel. Not what you said?"
Wendy
100%. And if you think about how you describe other people, you're like, "Oh, they made me feel really comfortable." Like, even in an interview setting. It's like "I really liked or I really enjoyed the interview, because I felt so comfortable. I didn't feel like there was like, a pressure or I didn't feel like I was being interrogated." You talk about your feelings a lot more than like, what questions they were asking.
Tracy
Yeah, exactly. And I think when you think about your interactions with people, think of people that you admire as people, and like people who you say positive things about to other people... And what traits can you learn from them? Yeah, there's somebody you know, who is so friendly, they always make you feel warm and like, seen and heard. What do they do to do that?
Wendy
So the last one to kind of like sum it all up, we've touched on this, again, letting others tell your story. There's a couple of like key words that I think are quite memorable. So the best PR is by word of mouth, you want your story to be memorable, so that it can be passed on to others. And I think your personal brand's success, I think is determined by how well someone else can tell your story or how well they can describe you, without you needing to say it.
Tracy
And I think it just comes into the actions that you take as well. Like, if you think of an actual brand, like I don't know, Apple or something, like, how do you feel about Apple? And why do you feel that way? And a lot of times, it's like through how they handled a crisis, or how they manage you as a customer. So it's all about relationship building.
Wendy
And experience, like what experience? Not necessarily like a service type of experience, but it's kind of like, again, the emotions that people feel around you.
And yeah, the kind of like feelings that they give to you, evoked from you.
But yeah, I feel like it's like a validation exercise, right? If someone can kind of explain how they felt around you, and how that aligns to the values that you set for yourself, or the, like, five key words that you set for yourself. And it's like, 100% accuracy, then you're doing the right thing by your personal brand. Well, I hope those principles were helpful. They definitely helped me when I was starting to build my personal brand. But also, as I go along, I kind of use them as like checkpoints for myself. Like, am I being genuine? Or is what I'm posting genuin? Does it tell the story? Do my five values still align to who I am now? Yeah, as I've evolved over time, yeah. Stuff like that.
Tracy
Yeah. So now we're gonna move on to talk about, like, I guess we have the principles now. And then what's our journey with developing our personal brand? Like, how did we come about where we are now?
Wendy
I mean, I talked about mine a little bit earlier with like, the university exercises that I did, and how it just kind of came about naturally. But I'm curious to hear how you developed yours, Tracy?
Tracy
Yeah, I think for me, it starts with understanding myself understanding who I am, and that comes from like reflection. Maybe reflection is one of my words, I reflect on things a lot. Yeah, like journaling, things like that. But there's also very good assessments that you can do that I've done throughout my career such as DISC. Have you done DISC? So it's like a working styles assessment that you can do online. And essentially, there's four different quadrants and it's how you're you behave at work. So that's one thing you can do. So how it works is there's D.I.S.C. So 'D' is like people who are very like fast paced and results driven, dominant, firm, strong, you know, forceful, strong build, that type of like the dominant type. 'I' is people who it's called stands for 'influence' - so people who are fast paced but people-focused. So they're all about being enthusiastic, building relationships with people who are very high spirited, lively, energetic. 'S' is 'steadiness' so these people are people focused, but they are slower in pace, so they're even tempered, accommodating patient, humble, kind of like be more calm. And you have 'C', which is 'conscientiousness'. So these people are more process focused, and slower paced, so analytical people, reserved, being systematic, being private. So you can be a combination of these, but generally, you have one that you're strong in. So I'm an 'I.S' so influenced-steadiness, so I'm very people focussed, fast paced. I don't know, if you could guess what you would be, what would it be?
Wendy
It's really interesting because when I was at Deloitte, we have a Deloitte framework for this. So it's called Business chemistry and then it's almost like, same as the 16 personalities, Myers Briggs ones. But essentially, you could be a driver, integrator, a guardian or a pioneer. And what you're describing is really similar. And I think I would be a because I'm like, like to get shit done and it's the same as the driver personality in the Deloitte framework. Essentially, II'm really driven to just get things done, results driven and adopt leader traits.
Tracy
Yeah, I would say that as well. And like, the thing to know about this, it's not a personality test. It's a behavioural test. So it's how you behave in a workplace. So it's pretty interesting, because I think, doing these kinds of assessments, you can understand how you work in the team, what your strengths are, how you complement yourself in a team as well. There's other assessments you can do, such as one called the VIA character strengths. So we'll link those, it's pretty fun, right? If you do the quiz, and it kind of pops up your top five strengths. So I think mine was like, 'love of learning' was my very top of strength. And there's other things there, like values assessment, seeing what your personal values are, obviously, the Myers Briggs. So I think for me starting with understanding myself, and these assessments can help you prompt your reflection, but it's not going to tell you who you are. Because only you can tell yourself who you are. Yeah, but it gives you things to think about and I think that's how I started with the thing about my personal brand, like, what it is that I stand for, and then reflecting on those traits. And then going onto how do I describe myself to others. And I think one thing I learned from work is that, you know, when you introduce yourself to people, you're like, "Hi, I'm Tracy, I work in advertising" or "Hi, I'm Wendy, I'm a designer." But the thing I try to remind myself is that I'm not defined by my work. When I introduce myself, now, I try to think about what I do outside of work as well. Like, "Hi, I'm Tracy, like the things that will describe me as I'm a go getter. I love travelling, I love people, I'm a communicator" like things like that, rather than defining myself first with my job. And then also, like, I'm passionate about diversity and culture, I run a podcast, I like sewing, like, I think that builds a better picture, a more colourful picture of who you are, rather than going "Hi, I work in advertising." Something that's one thing I've been trying to work on.
Wendy
I'm just reflecting now on how I describe myself. And I think what I say is like, "Hi, I'm Wendy. I'm a designer." Guilty of saying that. But then I talk about, like, what are the things that I'm passionate about that I want to learn or discover more through my design? So I'm like, I love diversity and inclusion. I love accessibility. And for these reasons, because I, you know, grew up in South West Sydney, things that I said before... so I think I want to revisit that and based on what you said and like, think about how do I describe myself to others, because I've never used my personality traits, because I'm just like, when people think I'm like, egotistical, self0absorbed. But I think the way that you described it is a way that doesn't make you seem like that. Yeah, ou just seem more confident in yourself. You know who you are.
Tracy
You're trying to be more personable, I think, because I think oftentimes when we go from university to work, your elevator pitch is always like, "Hi, I'm Tracy. I work in advertising. I studied the University of Sydney. I majored in XYZ. I worked here, I worked there. On the side I volunteer or some shit like that. Yeah. And it's just all like, not boring, but it's like, it's things you've done, not who you are.
Wendy
Yeah. I'm learning things from this too. And you know, like I said, I was confident my personal brand, but exhibit A, how you continue can continue to tell your story differently.
Tracy
Yeah. And I think the last thing that I tried to keep in mind and be conscious about is my presence around other people. And I think I touched on before, like every touchpoint I have with people, how do I show up to them? Yeah, like in its physical presence so it's like body language, eye contact, its vocal, how clear you speaking, are you articulate, but also mental being present is a big thing. Like, you know, when you're with people, and sometimes, you know, they're not even like listening to the conversation, they just give such a bad look. Yes, I think remembering that your presence can say a lot about who you are. Even if you're not saying anything, your actions, your body language, how you listen, is saying a lot.
Wendy
Yes, I'm a big fan of like active listening. So like making sure that I give eye contact to the person who's speaking nodding my head, to let them know that I'm listening. And I'm engaged, and asking questions as well. And I think that in even in a virtual context, now that we work from home, that's more important than ever, because people can't read the energy in a room. Yeah, when it's virtual, so you got to show them through other ways, like nodding, but also like putting things in chat that are encouraging.
Tracy
Reaction with the emoji reactions.
Wendy
Yeah, like those things are so important.
Tracy
Your camera on as well.
Wendy
I was just thinking about a couple of things. As you were speaking, I actually realised that I think right now, because I've just transitioned into a new job. I'm actually going through a period of like, reconsidering what my personal brand is. Because, you know, when you go into a new company, they asked me to do an introductory email, yes, with some questions. And I think even through that exercise, like, I was, like, changing my story a little bit. So it makes you just, like, question everything again, and I think, yeah, changing jobs is one of those life events that makes you question who you are. But also, I've had so many like life changes, like moving out and stuff, not seeing my friends as often. It just goes to show like you grow out of things, and you will change. And so doing things like trying to self reflect, understand yourself, is going to constantly ground you, rather than like writing the perfect formula. And then just going with that, for the rest of your life.
Tracy
That's true. It's like taking every opportunity as a way to practice how you can express yourself. Every new person you meet every new job you have, it's another opportunity to try something. And another one that I want to talk about is communication. I'm a very big fan of communicating, I think, especially written communication. And a practice that I feel like I've kind of worked on is like how I communicate even via emails, or how do I come across to other people? And there's this thing called powerless communication. I don't know if you've heard of it, but it's like, when you go, "Oh, sorry to bother you. Can I just ask you to do X Y, Zed, or I think I think I think that's right, or I think we should do this?" Or saying, "Oh, I might do this or saying I just have one question." Like the word just getting the out of your vocabulary changes so much. Yeah, it's not necessary, it's like undermining the thing you're gonna say next is like, "Oh, I just want to do this. I just have a question." It's kind of saying like, "Don't worry about me. I'm just like, small." You know what I mean? Yeah and again, reflects who you are as a person and I think just being more confident, like, getting rid of the things. Don't say sorry, say thank you instead, like, you're saying, "I'm so sorry, I'm late." No, "Thank you for being patient. Thank you for waiting for me." Or "Sorry, I made a mistake." You know, thank them for being human. It just like, changes the whole narrative. Because if you keep saying sorry, I think it's just like a reflection of who you are as well. Language is a very big thing that is very important, and being more definitive in how you speak.
Wendy
Yeah, don't underestimate it. One thing that I was doing in my previous job was looking into how can we be more impactful with the way that we communicate? And a lot of the things that you just said, speaks to that because it's like, if you just communicate in the ways the examples that you've given, the way that people see you, it's almost like they don't respect you or they don't build their respect for you. And one thing I wanted to know is just how did you come about, like being more conscious of those things?
Tracy
I don't know actually, I think maybe like, I've done workshops at work with people have brought that up, and it made me realise "Oh, yeah, I do say just a lot." And also, yeah, I think probably the most is workshops and things I see online are read, I feel like I read a lot. So naturally written communication is something I'm very passionate about. I love writing. And I'm always honing in on my writing skills, like every email I do is like a chance for me to like, write the perfect email, if that makes sense. Yeah, I know such a nerd. But yeah, definitely, if people had, like, I think, mentors had told me these things. And like, it made me reflect and kind of think about it a little bit more.
Wendy
Yeah, even as women, we need to be more aware of this. Yes. Right. Because you actually don't know how much or how little can go a long way. Yeah, exactly. A little difference can make like a lot....a little bit of change can go a long way.
Tracy
Maybe we'll put it on our stories or something. But there's this meme, or like this diagram, which has examples of how you can flip sorry to thank you in a lot of different scenarios at work that I saw a long time ago. And I still use like, sometimes I mentor like students at USYD tand I always showed them this type diagram. And they were like, is like, "Whoa." There's like such little language tweaks you can make to change so much like you said.
Wendy
Yeah. And I think, um, I just got reminded of like, the exercise we used before, they use very, like positive words that you can pick from. And I think we don't necessarily use those words in our vocabulary to describe ourselves. But I loved the word 'Able', because I feel like, it's better than saying, like, I'm really good at picking up new skills. You can just summarise that to... I like to think I'm an able, abled person?
Tracy
Yeah like, I can do this.
Wendy
I can do this. I'm like, it's better than saying like, "Oh, I'm determined. I'm hardworking"
Tracy
Well, it's empowering.
Wendy
Yeah. Cool. Well, I think I talked to like a lot of my strategies that I use. But one thing that I found, while I was doing that research for that workshop that I was doing was the PwC brand workbook, which they taught to us like an X Y Z formula was actually really useful. And it's available on the web, we'll link it in our show notes. But there are it's very basic, there are three key things when and I like to use it as a starting point for people who haven't even thought about their personal brand. So the way that it goes is, you first define your X Factor. So what are your superpowers? What are your skills, and these highlight who you are, but also how you like to work. And then the second thing was understanding your Y factor. So what is your Y factor? What are your top five values? So for me, I picked like, impact, ambition, creativity, knowledge, and efficiency. And these things highlighted, like the things that I value within a team, within a company, the types of challenges that I seek, and also what gets me excited. So it shows you even though they're like five key words, it shows you several things about a person. And then the last thing is eliminating your Z factor. So I think this speaks to self awareness. So identifying the areas that may prevent you from standing out and working on eliminating them, so you can put your best foot forward. So first acknowledging your downfalls, and then actively working on them.
Tracy
How did you like...How did you find doing this? Have you done this exercise? Yeah. How did you find doing is a hard?
Wendy
I think, um, the X and the Y, were easy, because I've kind of worked on it for several years. And it's kind of stayed the same throughout. My most difficult part of it was the Z factor. So it's so hard like acknowledging your weaknesses, and why you're not good. And sometimes you actually have to ask other people. Like, what do you think are the things that I need to work on? Can you give me feedback on that? I think people love talking about themselves and what they're good at, but people don't like talking about their weaknesses because it means you have to show vulnerabilities. And for me, you know, even though people think I'm a confident person, confidence is also something that gets me, and other things like making eye contact and making conversations with new people. You know, even though people don't think that these are weaknesses within you, if you make it known to them, they can provide you feedback on how to get better at it as well. So not seeing it as like, "Oh, if I admit that I'm not a confident person, this person's always gonna think I'm not confident." I think people are there to help you. So if you make it known and then make it known to yourself, you will seek out opportunities to get better at it.
Tracy
I think so. Yeah. So I feel like when it seems like your personal brand is very, like, I guess, strong, like, is there anything that you're doing at the moment to continually work on it?
Wendy
I actually think I'm at a place where I want to just revisit it, and redo a lot of these exercises, to be honest. So ask myself the questions, but most importantly, making the time because it's so easy to sweep under the rug, so easy to be like, "Oh, this is not gonna give me benefit right now so I can deprioritise it." But I'm starting to feel like, I'm just operating on autopilot and I need to make time for myself to reflect and go back to like trying to know myself again or trying to get to know myself.
Tracy
Yeah I think that's a good tip for everybody actually just taking like some time to just figure out who you are and like how you would, how would you introduce yourself now, knowing what we've just spoken about? Because you know, there's people who you have to go around the room, and you have to go introduce yourself, and they go, "Oh, my God, I don't know how to introduce myself" or they get really stressed about it.
Wendy
Because my thing is like, oh, I want to seem interesting. You want to seem like cool. Yeah. You know, it's something that I geek out about, because I'm just like, I don't want to just be another person in the room, like, I don't want to seem boring. nd I think it goes back to the point that you were saying about, like, people have already made their assumptions about you as an Asian, where you've come from, so then how do you say something to make them remember you for something different other than for you? Right? Then what you look like, or how you speak where you came from? Yeah, I think those are the things that are important to me, which is why I'm like, I need to tell an interesting fact, that's different every time. Yeah, that makes me seem like weird but cool.
Tracy
Love it. Love it.
Wendy
Okay, well, like we've put in a lot into this last part about how you can start on it, how you can continue to evolve it. But maybe let's summarise three key takeaways. So the first is to put it into practice. So you know, identifying opportunities where you can actually show that you are acting on the things that you say you are, these can even not just be like, putting it on LinkedIn or putting it in your description. But doing things like writing thought leadership posts, creating a portfolio that actually looks and feels like what you're saying you are. And then to your point, Tracy, it's like how you communicate? And how do you bring yourself into your room? How do you tell your story? And then again, reiterating the second point, which is this is always a work in progress, you're going to go through phases, where you're changing jobs, you're changing environments, you're going through life experiences that kind of change your values as well. So don't put too much pressure on yourself to find the perfect formula.
Tracy
Yeah, you don't know who you are now, like, don't stress, you'll figure it out. It's a work in progress. Yeah. And something that can help that we talked about is reviewing your personal brand with a friend. So doing these exercises with somebody getting feedback from the people around you. I think, hearing what people think of you will help you prompt reflection on yourself as well.
Wendy
And the last thing that is something that I like to do is just setting reminders for yourself to review, like your progress over 3, 6, 12 months. I do this in a work sense, but I'm starting to feel like now I probably need to do it for myself personally as well. Like literally put a reminder in your calendar, and just be like, well even like write something in your calendar, maybe we did this. I've done this before, like in uni or something where they made you put a reminder in your calendar, at the end of the year, to review a letter that you wrote to yourself from the beginning of the year.
Tracy
That was like, reflect on who you are how you show up into the spaces. Yeah, where you want to be? Yeah, like maybe just writing goals of where you want to be at 3, 6 and 12 months. Yeah, that's a good one. Awesome. So to wrap up our episode, we've got our dinner table questions. The first one Wendy, if your life was a movie, what would the title be?
Wendy
This is what I came up with this just now, "Cool, calm collected but chaotic."
Tracy
Wow. Okay, cool. Cool. Mine will be like 'Stumbling around in my life. figuring it out.'
Wendy
Literally, Tracy's always something like...whether it's like, eating at a restaurant. Tracy always drops food on the table.
Tracy
Yeah, I'm a bit clumsy. I feel like I just like work my way through life. Just stumbling around, but also laughing all the time. crying and laughing at the same time. Yeah, that's my life.
Wendy
Like in sports. Like when Tracy runs around, she's just like, zoom zoom.
Tracy
How do you describe it? Like, is it ducks? Sometimes they look calm on the surface, but underneath they're like frantic.
Wendy
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Which of the five senses would you say is your strongest? Hmm, definitely not sight.
Tracy
Wait, I was gonna say, like, sight not because of my actual sight, but because I'm a visual learner. So for me when I see stuff, when I read stuff, that's how I remember it and sight is a thing that moves me the most as a person. Like I'm inspired by the things I see which is why I would say sight would be my strongest, and I rely on it the most, which is why it's really sad to have glasses. I've only recently got glasses. Literally sad. I can't see.
Wendy
It is right. You can see right in front of you. Yeah, sometimes it's a beautiful.
Tracy
Wow, Wendy's right in front of me.
Wendy
I was gonna say sight as well, but I was just gonna say it because I've 20/20 vision and so nowmy response seems boring. Ok next!
Tracy
Okay. All right. What is your favourite day of the week? And your least favourite day of the week?
Wendy
I'm gonna say, love Wednesdays. Maybe because my name is Wendy...
Tracy
What?! Wendy Wednesdays!
Wendy
Not because of that. But when you get to Wednesday's, you're like halfway through the week, you reflect on how much you've done. But also you can look forward to the weekend as well. Yeah. And then my least favourite day of the week. Oh, God, I hate Sunday's Sundays.
Tracy
I say Mondays.
Wendy
I have Sunday scaries. absolutely hate it. I'm still trying to find ways to overcome it. So if you have tips, please let me know. But the anxiety that I have on Sundays is mainly because of two things like, one, have I done enough on the weekend to? You know, if somebody was to ask me tomorrow, what did you do in your weekend? Do I have something cool to say? Not cool to say but do I have something to say that makes it feel like I made the most of my weekend? Right? And then just dreading the week.
Tracy
Yeah, yeah. I don't know. This is hard all my days kind of one to one these days. I think my favourite day used to be Fridays, but I kind of like Thursdays now.
Wendy
Thursdays?
Tracy
I think Thursdays, I like it because it's almost like the second Friday.
Wendy
Like yeah, Friday's little sister. What's the word? Oh, someone's called it something before...
Tracy
Oh, I don't know. But on Thursdays I feel a little bit more like...what is the word..like frivolous? I'm like, "Whoo! This means Friday's coming up and Saturdays coming up and Sunday is coming up." So feeling a little bit naughty. I want to stay up on a Thursday night because Friday's the next day. I don't know for me like Thursday starts my weekend. So weird. I don't know. I started getting into the weekend mindset on Thursday because I'm like, "Oh, I can stay up. We can do whatever. Because the next day is Friday and Friday is the end of the week. Yeah, I can do it. Yeah. Awesome." So it feels empowering. I like those days.
Wendy
Maybe that's how I feel about Wednesdays.
Tracy
Yeah, it's like the hump day. Right. My least favourite day of the week, Mondays probably...
Wendy
Dread?
Tracy
I don't dread it. But Mondays are always very like formal. The connotations have around Monday. It's like, oh, so formal meetings and work and it'll get a little bit looser. As the week goes by, where it's more like Mondays. It's like, work, work work. That's how I see it.
Wendy
I don't know. Yeah, I get what you're saying. And Mondays is always jampacked. So many meetings.
Tracy
Yeah, exactly, over it!
Wendy
Well, that wraps up our episode. I hope this one was a really useful one. I don't think personal brand is spoken about enough. And honestly, I didn't really think about it in this much detail until I had to hold those workshops for work. So yeah, still learning. still progressing, still changing.
Tracy
Yeah, we talked about a lot of resources and exercises you can do. So we'll leave that all in the show notes. So, you know, try it out. Let us know how it goes. Hopefully you find it helpful.
Wendy
And as always, if you have any ideas for future episodes, if you want to send us a nice little message. We just want to chat. DM us on @aseatatourtable.podcast. And we hope everyone's staying well and happy and staying warm.
Tracy
Yeah. Thank you. Bye!