A Season of Growth
EPISODE 20 — 12 AUGUST 2022
ABOUT THE EP
We celebrate the end of Season 1 in true Tracy & Wendy style - we get vulnerable and have a heart to heart. We reveal the hardest parts of running a podcast, shout out to the people who has supported us along the way, reflect on unexpected learnings, gush over some of your comments, and look to what's next.
THE DETAILS
The podcast journey so far
The hardest and easiest parts of starting a podcast
Our biggest lessons and milestones
Our favourite episodes
Our goals for next season
Tips for anyone starting a podcast
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Wendy
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the poddy. We are on the big 2-0, episode 20.
Tracy
She's a...what is it? Do they call it teenagers? No, they're not. Our podcast is in their 20s.
Wendy
Yeah, I mean, you can put it that way.
Tracy
Into adulthood, is what I'm saying.
Wendy
So we thought that it was a good time to kind of wrap up our first season. I mean, when we started, we didn't really have a number in mind. We kind of just wanted to start recording and see where it took us. And now we're somehow on episode 20. So here we are.
Tracy
For this episode, what we're going to do is look back at all 20 episodes, reflect on our journey of starting our podcasts, what we've learned, what we've enjoyed, what we struggled with, our biggest takeaways, and also reflecting on what's next for our podcast.
Wendy
Yeah, so let's dive into it. First thing we want to do is, let's describe our podcast journey in three words.
Tracy
So for me, I think the first thing that came up was 'enlightening'. Because I feel like this journey, I have learned so much about the topics that we've talked about, but also, like ourselves, like me, about you, about our friendship, like, I feel like every episode we do is an enlightening journey, because I'm learning things that I never thought I would learn in terms of like things that I wouldn't consciously think, "Oh, I want to go learn this," you know? Yeah, even minor things like learning how to record a podcast, let's take technicalities of it - I've learned a lot. And then the second one is just 'fun'. Like, I think every time we record, we have a good time, like just Wendy and I kind of just laughing and talking. Like, it's not too much different from what we do in our personal lives. I think doing it with a friend has been really fun. It doesn't feel like you know, a job, it feels like, just like a hobby, which it is, you know. And my last one is 'heartwarming'. Because I think this journey has led to a lot of like unexpected, but very heartwarming moments, in terms of connecting with people we don't normally connect with, you know, building new friendships, reconnecting with old friends, but also the nice comments we've received. And also the just the feeling of putting a baby out there in the world and then feeling like, you know, it's thriving, or it's surviving, thriving. It's really nice to kind of see our hard work be out there in the public and be so well received as well. So it's really heartwarming,
Wendy
Yeah, definitely agree with all those things, it was so hard, trying to find three other words that didn't overlap with yours. But I 100% agree with all those points and resonate with them wholeheartedly. For me, my words were 'enriching'. When I was thinking about this, I just got this like, feeling of like my soul being really warm and fuzzy. And I think that goes hand in hand with my second word, which is 'proud' because it's like, we've put something out there and now we're just seeing it take a life of its own. And, you know, when we started, we didn't know what was going to come out of this, we will kind of just like, let's just dive into it. To see what it's kind of led to for not just ourselves as individuals, but for others around us, who have told us that this has been, I think, really helpful at some points in their life, has been amazing as well. My last word is 'educational'. Every time we do any episode, we do a bit of research. We, you know, Google things, and I feel like they are things that I never would have Googled, you know, things like diversity, inclusion, and it's things that happen in passing and is so important in your day to day, but you're not really conscious of it, it's not at the forefront of your mind. And so, making an episode about a certain topic really forces us to put ourselves in that position where we need to open ourselves up and learn and challenge the way that we've always thought about something. So that's been one of the key moments to this podcast.
Tracy
I think it's like, people always say like, you know, "I want to learn more about this. I want to be more educated. I want to be woke or whatever it is," but they don't really put the time aside for it. So I feel like this podcast is almost like allocated time for us to learn and kind of grow in that area. And it's been really nice because it's like killing two birds with one stone.
Wendy
Yeah. And I don't think it's felt like a chore, either. Yeah, definitely not for me anyway. There are definitely parts of it that feel like a chore, which we'll get into. But I feel like it has felt so natural doing it and it's felt so rewarding. And it's not like you're putting grudge work into it.
Tracy
I agree. What has been the hardest part about starting the podcast? Or having a podcast for you?
Wendy
I think, because we're obviously very busy people. We have a lot of commitments, whether that's like work, social sports, all that kind of stuff. I think just balancing this amongst all of that, and prioritising has been...I don't think it's difficult...it's just like, knowing that you need to put time aside to this, because you've committed yourself to it. You know, I feel like that's one of the hardest parts. The other, which is probably the bane of my existence, as a part of this podcast, is posting on socials consistently. So for our listeners, like Tracy and I, we delegate tasks to each other. So Tracy does the editing, and then I do the editing for what goes on our socials and I post it and everything. And I feel like it's been so hard keeping that up because it's so easy to get into a rut with those things. Like it's so saturated, and on Instagram, everything that you see, just doesn't feel like it's new. And so coming up with new ideas, trying to get people engaged and also the algorithm is whack.
Tracy
I mean, Instagram needs to pick it up. I feel like the algorithm has really been deteriorating.
Wendy
Yeah and like you know, doing video content takes so much time. And I guess, when we started this, it wasn't like, yeah, we're all going to have like this huge social media portion as a part of it. It was kind of just something that we had to do and so that I feel like that's been the biggest struggle for me. And then lastly, constantly coming up with new ideas. I wouldn't say this is really, really hard. But it's like the fact that we're recording like, we're at 20 episodes and knowing that, you know, there's this big open world out there of so many different topics that we can cover. It's like, oh, what do we focus on next? And trying to pinpoint when we should talk about something is quite hard sometimes. Yeah, we have our ups and downs with that, I think.
Tracy
Yeah, I think on that, as well. I think like Wendy said, I feel like there's so much we can do, like the possibilities is literally endless. And I think for me as well, some of the hardest parts is actually keeping on track and the consistency as well, when we when we do get busy and when there is a lot happening in our lives. Because it's like, there's so much to do, that you want to do, but you don't have all the time in the world to do it. So I think that's something that I kind of, like, find difficult, where Wendy and I have all these ideas when we get together, but the execution part of it, we don't do as fast as we, you know, imagine we could or life gets in the way but I think that's just part of having a life like having multiple commitments. So I think definitely one of that, for me is you know, keeping track when I'm busy and kind of scheduling time even if we are busy to record. Like right now Wendy and I are recording via zoom so thank god for technology, you know. But I think because we're both quite overachievers as well. Like we want to keep ourselves consistent, we have been posting every fortnight since we started. That's a big thing to be proud of I think for me and you, because people can start a podcast and they just post whenever they feel like but because we're such I guess, overachievers or perfectionists, we keep up to these deadlines that we set ourselves but I think it's also really helped in growing our podcast as well. Other things that I will put down as the hardest part, like I think starting the podcast was probably the hardest part honestly, like reflecting on it. I think at the very very beginning like Wendy and I spent two years talking about starting a podcast. Crazy! Like finding a name was a major part of that. I think we couldn't land on a name and a purpose statement and like you know, what we wanted to stand for just because you know, the world is your oyster. When you get too many options, it gets overwhelming. So I think just starting is the hardest part. But once we started, the momentum kind of started getting easier. What else? Technical difficulties. Like we talk about it all the time. Full stop. Podcasters, you guys know like, this is not easy. Like when you think you just like record your voice, it's fine but like, there's just so many technical things that go behind setting up the microphone, testing the sound, syncing up recordings. I
Wendy
Yeah. That time that we like had, I think for Episode Two, we had our microphone backwards. We had to re-record the whole thing. But I have to agree with a lot of what you said about like naming the hardest parts or like our biggest failures is one thing, but also like flipping it on its head and acknowledging how we've kind of overcome that as well is a big thing. Things like just knowing that even though we've committed to this podcast, we also have to be forgiving ourselves to know that we have lives to live, like nobody's keeping tabs on us if you know, we're not posting consistently or not, if we miss a week, I mean, maybe your sister...
Tracy
I was gonna say, except my sister Lillian, who literally messaged me today going, "Should an episode have gone out this?" A week break, okay.
Wendy
Yeah, but that's what I mean, this shouldn't feel like a job and it should feel like, you know, something that we enjoy doing and want to do so we should do it on our own timeline. I think that's the biggest thing. Lately, I've actually been feeling guilty because I feel like I'm in a bit of a slump, not just with this podcast, but just in life in general. And I feel like that impacts, ultimately everything else that you're committed to. I almost feel like I've been waiting for like this episode and then the break to try and like force myself to have a mental reset. But yeah, it's like being true to yourself, and also communicating with your partner. In this case, it's like Tracy to say that "Yeah, sorry, I've been really busy haven't been able to do this." So like, you can rely on each other to pick up the slack if you need to, as well. And we've had kind of moments like that as well.
Tracy
Yeah, I think it's just like we understand the lives we live and how busy you can get, oh, I don't like using the word busy. But you know, like, how many things can happen in our lives and it's just being kind to each other and ourselves.
Wendy
Yeah. 100%?
Tracy
Yeah. And the other last thing I put as kind of a hard thing about starting or having a podcast is, I struggled, maybe because I do the editing, listening back to myself, or like, yeah, ourselves, and I think just being a perfectionist. I think at the very beginning, Wendy and I were really like, we have to say the perfect things, we have the sound perfect, we can't say filler words, we don't say "um", things like that. But then, as the journey went by, it was kind of like accepting that actually, we don't have to be perfect. It is still difficult listening back sometimes and going "Why do I speak like that? Why did I say it like that?" But, again, it's a journey of acceptance of ourselves.
Wendy
Yes. I love that. I think it's like, when you listen to yourself, you notice all the things that people probably don't notice and I notice how many different things that I say, and I don't even just use it in this context, but like in work as well. And I'm like damn, I got to check myself. But then I think as time goes on, and the more episodes that we've done, it's become a lot easier to be forgiving, maybe because I don't do the editing, and I just listen to us. But it does help when we pre-record episodes. And I've had a bit of time between then and then when you send me the fully edited version, because then I'm like, "Oh my god, I actually really enjoyed listening to the episode." Because I listened to their thing and to end before it goes live and sometimes I catch like, you know ourselves by surprise, of how great we sound or... not to toot our own horn.
Tracy
We sound amazing!
Wendy
No, it's just like, I've had moments where I've come out of an episode recording thinking like, "Oh, I feel like I didn't do my best that episode." And then listening back to it and realising that actually, it wasn't so bad, you know? Yeah. And just having some time apart from the episode itself, allows you not to ruminate on it so much.
Tracy
Yeah, I agree. Like an example of that is our episode about surviving and thriving in your 20s. I feel like after that episode when you and I was like, "Do we even want to post this like, I don't know if we said anything like constructive or good?" And then after we edit it and put it together, I was like, oh, it's completely fine. And then we even got a few people message us about how good the episode was. So it's just surprising, what we think is not that good, can resonate with other people.
Wendy
Yeah, seeing people's messages, come back to us, in terms of saying how relatable it was, I feel like those are the moments that we live for. Yeah, and makes this all feel a lot more rewarding as well.
Tracy
Yeah. And I feel like that episode even though for us, it felt like a filler. And now I feel like oh, actually, it was quite an important episode to talk about any, it's like a nice episode to capture a moment in our lives.
Wendy
Yeah. On the flip side, what was the easiest part about this poddy?
Tracy
I didn't have to think that hard about this. My answer was talking.
Wendy
Laughing? Lol.
Tracy
Talking and laughing, lol. Because if you know Wendy and I, you know, we can talk. Like, especially when we're together, I feel like we can talk and talk and talk and talk and talk. So the talking part of a podcast is actually not that hard. I don't want to say it's easy, but it's not as hard as I thought it would be if that makes sense. Because you're just talking to a friend.
Wendy
I think if I was to do this with anyone else, I would have to really think about, like, which parts of the podcast or the episode do I need to carry? Or which parts are my responsibility versus the other? Whereas I feel like, because of our friendship, you know, and our ability to almost finish each other's sentences, it's so easy to bounce off each other, and behind the scenes, rely on each other to do tasks as well, like if the other person needs to prioritise something else. And we can be straight and honest with each other as well, I feel like that's actually the easiest.
Tracy
Actually, the easiest part is doing it with Wendy because I feel like we have such great teamwork and such a great like friendship/partnership that's been built over the year - literally Dream Team #DreamTeam #TheTworists, #everything, right? Like, there's no one else. Anything I do with Wendy is going to be easy because of how well we know each other and how much like we work well together.
Wendy
Yeah. And it's also the fact that we have a similar vision for this podcast is one thing, but the other thing is like, our understanding of this topic, and where we want to take it and why we're doing this, like our values or mission or that kind of stuff, is very much so aligned. And that's the foundation of everything, right? When you've got aligned values with someone, not even just in a podcast, like in a business and all that kind of stuff, that's the only thing that you really need to take it forward.
Tracy
Yeah. Do you remember us kayaking on the boat? I just thought, I don't know why, but when I think of us, like teamwork, I think us rowing the boat like kayaking and honestly, we're really good. Like, guys, Wendy and I on a kayak, we're so fast.
Wendy
Okay, for context. We've only kayaked together once.
Tracy
Has it been once? Not twice?
Wendy
I don't know it was once. We went to a beach house after HSC and we went kayaking in the Royal National park down South. Wait no, was it then? No, it was camp.
Tracy
Yeah. And then I think we tried it twice.
Wendy
Okay, twice. But like, the first time we came together and you know, kayaking requires teamwork, right? Because it requires the person in the front and the person in the back to paddle in opposite directions. Yeah. So we'll like one, two.
Tracy
And people around us were capsizing and we're like wow, we didn't capsize. We're too good for this.
Wendy
We were breezing through it. Yeah.
Tracy
Anyway.
Wendy
Now I think we've set the standard for us kayaking, like we need to go on a kayaking trip.
Tracy
Olympic Champions. Who knows? We might have the potential in us. Wendy and I like stack shelves as well. Like so quick.
Wendy
Ah, so many things to reveal to the audience. So many things they don't know.
Tracy
We'll be like the old ladies power walking in the park when we grow up.
Wendy
Yeah. When we're 80, trust. Yeah, we're gonna be running the nursing home that we're put in.
Tracy
Yeah. 100%
Wendy
Anyway, we digress.
Tracy
Tooting our own horns again.
Wendy
Sorry, not sorry. What was the biggest takeaway so far, for you, Tracy?
Tracy
I think the biggest one I said it's cheesy, but like I think it's "What you put in is what you get out." So like this podcast, it's like our baby, our passion project and genuinely like, how much effort we put in is how much we're gonna get back. Like I said at the beginning, there is so much we can do with it and if we put all the effort in, I think you can go to great lengths basically. So I think the biggest learning for me is like, my effor counts a lot if that makes sense. Like the motivation and the effort that we put into this actually means a lot. It's not like, you know, we can just half arse something and hope for the best. There's a lot of effort that gets put into it and you can see the results because of the result of those efforts.
Wendy
It's like the fruits of our labour, right?
Tracy
Yeah, I think so. Because we could go do it once a month, but we probably won't see as many results or we won't get as much out of it as we currently do. But the fact that we put so much effort into it, like we actually get, we've got gotten so much out of it in terms of learning about ourselves, learning about podcasting, learning about the topics we talk about. It's definitely a big learning curve.
Wendy
Yeah, at the core of it, the reason why we're doing it is because this is such a big passion of ours. And I think that's what keeps us going and it just proves that it's worthwhile. And this is only the start of it, which feels really reassuring, because we're still so young, like, what else can we do with this once we get into our 30s, and all that kind of stuff?
Tracy
Like, I think it's learning that it's actually bigger than ourselves, I think, as weird as that sounds. Wendy and I started this, because it's something we both enjoy doing, it's our passion. We wanted to just chit chat on a podcast but I've kind of learned that, like what we put out there has actually, no matter how small or big it is, it makes a positive impact. But even one person messaging us saying that they took so much out of an episode, that's enough, like it has made an impact outside of me and her.
Wendy
Yeah. The other thing for me, has been opening ourselves up to being taught and being challenged by others. Like, I think as human beings, our ego gets in the way, we're never as honest as saying like, I don't actually don't know much about this topic, but I'm willing to learn more about it. You know, we might say that in a work setting, but you never wholeheartedly mean it - I think anyway. And I think through the action of recording episodes, doing research, putting our opinions out there, but also opening up or creating the space to be challenged as well, has been one of my biggest takeaways so far. I would like to think that it's translated into other parts of my life as well.
Tracy
Yeah, I do like that. When we put out episodes, we're like doing it intentionally asking to learn, like, we're asking people to challenge us, to educate us. So it's, there's a lot of intention behind what we do, which is really nice.
Wendy
Yeah, has anything been unexpected or surprising about this journey?
Tracy
I actually think like, this is surprising probably for a lot of people that I talk to, is that I feel podcasting is actually more achievable or doable and accessible than I originally imagined. I feel like as a podcast listener, I was like, "Oh, starting a podcast, that must be so hard, like, there must be barriers, is it actually free? Like maybe you have to pay something on the platform." But it's actually like, really, it's free to do guys. Like if you want to start a podcast, like, obviously, there's, as we discussed, it's hard in terms of like, coming up with the name, the planning, you know, doing the recordings, things like that, but the actual steps to take to start a podcast, it's very accessible, and anyone can do it. So that was surprising for me, the fact that it's free to do.
Wendy
Yeah, I agree. I never thought that I'd be in my like, late 20s, mid 20s, starting a podcast. And I think that's like the fact that we took two years to do this, if we had known that it was going to be this easy, we probably would have done it earlier, right? But I don't regret starting at this time, either.
Tracy
I agree. Because I think we almost needed those two years to really hone in on what we wanted to do. Because at the beginning, I was very bored. So the other thing that surprised me was, I think as we started this podcast, we were able to connect with the Asian Australian podcasting community. So it's actually the surprising element in terms of, everyone is actually really nice. And it's actually a very small kind of tight knit or small community in the Asian Australian podcasting space. I think a big learning is that there's actually so much to grow as a community because I feel like we almost now follow everybody who has a podcast, who's Asian Australian and who has a podcast, and there's not as many as there are Asian American podcasts. So I think, you know, it is a small community, but there's so many so much opportunity to grow there. That's like an observation that I have that was surprising. Another thing is getting unexpected messages from people that we haven't talked to in like years, people from primary school, people from high school, that has been really, really nice in terms of like people actually moved enough to reach out and drop us a message. So that's been really nice to experience.
Wendy
Yeah, thanks to our fellow friends who've reached out. We're going to read some messages later, so stay tuned for that. But I think on the point of connecting with others in the Asian Australian podcasting space, when you start something new, that's like a podcast or business, you inherently are going to feel like a level of like competitiveness, right? And I actually have felt the opposite in terms of like, connecting with like minded people in this space has been really easy, because we have a common ground to start off on. That almost makes it easier to kind of get to know someone, because you know, they're passionate about the thing that you're passionate about as well, right? And we don't need to, I guess, put pressure on ourselves to be professional, or have a certain like demeanour. When we meet these people, it's kind of like, "Hey, you love talking about this? I love talking about this. Let's connect," and that's been really lovely. Actually, like we've met up with a few podcasters like Asian soup podcast, the Asian Australian Project.
Tracy
They're not podcasters, but they're kind of in that space.
Wendy
It's been so lovely connecting with new people and these are people that we probably never would have known or met, if we hadn't started this. So that's been a really unexpected and surprising part for me.
Tracy
Also, like other podcasters, who have helped us at the beginning, I feel like we ask how do I record online, we ask the girls at 'Unapologetic Asian', like how they do it. We asked you 'As I Am' how they do it, and people have been very open in going this, these are the platforms and tools that we use to record, this might help you. It's been really, like really nice to be able to just reach out and you know, that people will respond and support.
Wendy
Yeah, that's the thing about podcasting, right. Like the beauty of it is that I think that most people go into this without the expectation of getting something in return, like monetary value or anything like that. So the reasons for starting is just, it just comes from a place of passion and because of that, you're more willing to be open to sharing those learnings. You're not gatekeeping anything, as opposed to like, if you have a small business, it'd be a completely different story in us, you'd be a lot more apprehensive asking for advice from other people. So you don't really see that in anything else.
Tracy
It used to be like that before YouTube, but I think YouTube is so monetized nowadays, it's a bit different. But yeah, I agree, it's almost like grass roots vibes.
Wendy
Yeah. The other thing that surprised me was that we actually don't need to put so much pressure on ourselves to be perfect. Most of the time, people don't notice the imperfections unless they obviously really drastic. And I think when we started this like episode, say, one to five, we wanted it to perfect, like, we would pause and re-record things. We would listen so meticulously to the edit afterwards and you know, triple check everything. But now I feel like we're a lot more forgiving to ourselves and it hasn't been anything different, that's been the other part of it as well. And I think it does help that we aren't really expecting anything out of this, other than the fact that we just want to share what we know with the world. But we also want to learn from others as well and that just takes the pressure off.
Tracy
Yeah and it has felt like a so safe space as well. I think like I feel like the people that listen to us, I don't feel like we're gonna get attacked, or you know, judged for saying something. Everyone has been so supportive, and it is a safe space for everyone to learn like us and the listeners to learn about the topics that we're talking about.
Wendy
Yeah. On the topic of that, let's celebrate some of our milestones. So, we started back in October, I want to say the 22nd.
Tracy
Oh, good memory. I don't know.
Wendy
I need to check. Like when our first episode was, do you wanna fact check that Tracy?
Tracy
I'm gonna fact check it right now, because I've got our Anchor thing open. Let's see, the 19th of October.
Wendy
Oh, okay.
Tracy
Actually I am wrong. I'm wrong. Sorry, I'm wrong. It's the 31st of October, the 19th was when our trailer was released.
Wendy
Oh, okay, cool. Well, like October, yes. Eight months? No, lol, math? That's 10 months ago. Can you believe it like in two months time...
Tracy
We've had a baby? We had a baby.
Wendy
Yeah, it's gonna be one years old. Should we hold a party?
Tracy
Oh podcast party? Yeah? Down!
Wendy
But, you know, in the 10 months that we've been recording, we've not only hit 20 episodes, we've reached 405 followers, which I think was a surprise to us both. Because initially, when we set the goal for ourselves this year, we wanted to hit 500. And we were like, "Ah, no, that's too much. Oh, should we bring it down to 400?" And I'm so glad we didn't, because, like, it's grown organically and that's been, I think the highlight for me, is like seeing your audience grow organically, seeing people who genuinely want to engage with you. And it's not like we're trying to really get followers, it's just happened naturally.
Tracy
Yeah, I think so. Like, yeah, it's been really, really nice, actually, to see that organic growth and going, oh, it's just nice, it's heartwarming. People actually want to listen to us, people actually want to follow us, it's really lovely. Especially like, the first few episodes you get, like all your friends following you but then people outside your friends, I'm like, "Oh my God, there's people who don't know us, who are interested enough to follow us," which has been nice. Another goal we had was to get 100 listeners, like an average of 100 listeners. So obviously, this number is pretty hard to measure but roughly on our anchor, we've got roughly 84 listeners, which is pretty decent, like 84 people regularly listen to our episodes, which is pretty amazing. That's almost a grade in high school. Another milestone for me is meeting up, like Wendy said, with other people in their space, like we had such a great time meeting the Asian Soup girls, I think that was actually one of my highlights, like actually sitting down and we had no podcast agenda or anything. It was just let's catch up, let's have a coffee, meet each other, chit chat and we just like chatted for ages. And it was such a nice, like, lovely evening to just talk to people who are kind of doing similar things.
Wendy
We ended up like giving each other like ideas of what we can do like to improve our podcasts. And it wasn't like, "Hey, let's have a meeting so that you can give me feedback on my podcast." It wasn't that at all. It was like, literally just getting to know each other and then it just flowed into, like, you know, what have you learned from your podcast? How do you plan for your episodes? Again, just sharing, and not like gatekeeping that information. Because there's really no need to, and just making new friends. You know, that's always a positive.
Tracy
Yeah. And also another milestone for me is getting our first guests as well, or like doing our first guest episode. I think. I always loved doing our guests episodes. But finally, like kind of bringing people in, because I think that was the original vision for Wendy and I because we wanted to interview a lot of people so having that first episode was really cool, too.
Wendy
Yeah. And it's just like started to grow, in terms of how we connect to our future guests, it's kind of just happened naturally. And I always get surprised about oh, actually, there's a lot of people that I know already as friends who would make really great guests for our podcasts and you just see these people in a different light after. It just takes the friendship to a whole new level, you know, and we've had, like several friends come on, and it's things that you will never talk about on a normal day. So yeah, I think that's been huge. I have two more. The first is building up the confidence to put ourselves out there into the world unapologetically. I feel like I was always scared to, like be an influence or be put in that bucket. I don't think we're influencers but you know, what we're doing is kind of like along the same lines in terms of putting ourselves onto the internet, putting our voices out there, like that's a huge scary thing. But I don't feel like I've ever been scared to tell people we have a podcast and we just talk about, you know, our Asian Australian experiences as creatives. And there's no pressure to feel like there's a certain face we need to put on for this. Like, whenever we record, we just bring our whole selves and I think that's been really lovely so it doesn't feel like a chore.
Tracy
Yeah, and we're not afraid to be like bit silly and delirious either.
Wendy
Yeah, I mean, we are recording this on a Monday night at 9pm. You know what I mean? The other thing is, this is a bit of a lol. So for Tracy's birthday...
Tracy
Oh, yeah.
Wendy
I created merch shirts for us two and we recently wore it to our little date together, The Finders Keepers markets, but I feel like you know, that's the beginning of what this could become. What if we start selling merch? I mean, everybody loves merch, but Tracy and I love our merch the most.
Tracy
We love our own merch. I mean, there needs to be thought behind it because I don't know about the idea of selling merch, just for the sake of selling merch. If we had a cool collab like, I don't know, profits gone to a certain cause or something like that, I think that'd be very cool.
Wendy
Yeah. But it was just like an idea and then there was an occasion for it and then it became a thing and it's like a real thing now, just like our podcast is, you know.
Tracy
Yeah
Wendy
What has been your favourite episode that we've done to date?
Tracy
Um, my favourite episode. Actually, I think this is really hard, it's like picking your favourite kids. You know, I think each episode, I like for its own purposes. But the ones that come to mind is Imposter Syndrome with Jason. I don't know why I think that felt really cathartic to do that episode. It was difficult because it was our first time recording with a third person. I think the pacing and like kind of when to talk, what to talk about, that was difficult. But then the actual conversation and discussion itself felt really cathartic and therapeutic. I felt like it was genuinely a really safe space, because me, you and Jason know each other quite well, we've been friends for quite a while. And I think the three of us are on pretty much the same page in terms of values and experiences. So I think it was really, really nice to just have that space to connect with Jason in a way that maybe we're not really used to as well. Because sometimes with goofing around most of the time, but being able to share experiences about our imposter syndrome in the industry, and it was such a big topic that I think was on our minds and it actually resonated a lot with other people as well. Like I really enjoyed the episode because I also thought it took our friendship, the three of us, to another level.
Wendy
Yeah.
Tracy
To hear those stories, we were all quite vulnerable with each other, which was really nice. I picked three, I know you asked for one, but I picked three. My second one, I really liked the one we did with Kevin SydneyFoodBoy, because I guess we haven't connected with Kevin in ages. I haven't seen Kevin like we went to primary school together, we haven't seen each other in a long time and I am big, big, big fan of his. To do that episode about growing up and Cabramatta, the food scene, the culture, I think it really hit home for me, because the stuff that we talked about is almost the reason why we're doing what we do. Because we wanted to put our community, our area on the map, and showcase how colourful and beautiful it is and I think that kind of aligns with what Kevin does as well. You know, I loved all our other guests episodes as well but then obviously that one stood out in my mind, because like the topics that we talked about was very close to home. And then lastly, a quick one. I really enjoyed our diversity and inclusion one. Because again, I feel like that's the reason as well that started off this podcast. And I learned so much from doing the research for the episode. And personally D&I is a really, really big topic that I'm passionate about and I felt like it was such a great episode in terms of like learning and I really wanted to kind of do more episodes similar to that and like maybe bring in an expert next time. If you're an expert in D&I, if you have a work title that includes D&I, like, let us know, I would love to have you on the podcast.
Wendy
Yeah, 100% agree with all those points. It's really hard to pinpoint like one favourite one because I think even now just thinking about it, I probably need to listen back to a couple of our earlier episodes to really remind myself of all the things that we've talked about, but all the things that I've learned along the way as well. Echoing what you said like my favourite episodes have been the SydneyFoodBoy episode. I won't harp on about that but I feel like it really rekindled old friendships like Kev has randomly messaged me. "Oh, I'm in the area, do you want food?" There's those little moments, but we've also met a lot of people through him as well, sharing like the episode which has been great. I picked up another one, which is probably more of like an episode that made me laugh, which was the Chinese New Year one when we read out our horoscopes for the Year of the Tiger.
Tracy
That's literally the funniest episode ever. Like, guys, if you want to laugh, that's the episode.
Wendy
Just get to the bit where we read a horoscope, because it was just like a bit dire.
Tracy
Just shocking.
Wendy
Yeah. And then lastly, I picked an episode where I felt very vulnerable, but also out of the episode actually made a change in like my mindset. And it was the money episode, which is our episode before this. The reason why I picked it was because it was actually a topic that I was really afraid of, in the sense that it was something that I always just avoided talking about, I never really wanted to acknowledge it. I knew that, like, you know, I was managing my finances just fine. But it was also something that had given me so much anxiety that I just didn't really want to think about it. But off the back of that, I've been thinking about it a lot more and I've actually, you know, made strides to be a little bit more financially smarter as well. So, you know, it goes to the point of us learning about ourselves, and also like, facing our demons sometimes in the things that we talk about.
Tracy
Yeah, definitely being forced to be more vulnerable for the podcast. So what have you done after the episode? I'm curious.
Wendy
So obviously, it was very timely, because obviously, it's the start of a new financial year. So I started tracking my expenses again and it was mainly because, you know, with rate rising, like rates for home loans, and all that kind of stuff. I was like, "Oh, crap, I actually need to properly manage my spending, because I don't know how much I'm saving," like, not having sight of that made me really anxious. And it was getting to the point of like, you know, it's such a hot topic right now so it was constantly being, like talked about around me. So I was like, okay, I probably need to get my ducks in a row. And so I've done this massive like spreadsheet to keep all my expenses, I do it every like two weeks or once a month, and I just track like how much I'm spending. And that in itself has made me less anxious about, like money in itself, and putting it off. That was what was making me feel guilty. And when you have that on your mind, it takes up space in your brain, you know? And in doing that, I'm kind of like, okay, I've done something about it, so I can feel a little less anxious about it.
Tracy
Yeah. Wow. Love that. Yeah, I actually started tracking my expenses, too. Yeah. How have you been finding it? I've never really tracked my expenses until, well, I only track my expenses when I go overseas, because I want to know how much I spent overseas. But in terms of like everyday life, I've never done it before. So after that episode, I actually was, like you, pondering about my financial literacy, and go, I should probably track my expenses. And then I did it, I downloaded an app, I'm capturing everything I spend and it's actually made me so much more conscious about the money that I'm spending. And like, when I'm making a purchasing decision, I'm thinking, is this you know, should I spend this money? Like, is it worth the money? Or in terms of, is this wasting money? Like, I think, yeah, I'm more conscious about it.
Wendy
We'll definitely do more about like the topic of money and hopefully bring on like, a professional expert on finances. But that is a nice segue into our next question, which is, what are our goals for the next season? Is there anything we want to do less or more of, or any topics that spring to mind? I personally want to do more collaborations with other podcasts because I think that's a bit different and, you know, I've seen other podcasts do it as well and I want to kind of get that experience on our podcast too. The other thing is something to do with Asian representation in media. That's not a space that I have a lot of knowledge in, but I think it's inherently something that's very creative, right? So, you know, diving into that as well. And a couple of other things, is holding an event potentially, to bring like, you know, all the Asian Australians, creators and podcasters together, we have this massive vision and hopefully we can make it happen. But yeah, just creating space for people to collaborate and for us to actually meet some of our audiences face to face, that would be pretty epic. And then lastly, to showing more of ourselves on Instagram, since we're behind a mic all the time.
Tracy
Agreed with all that. I think, for me, also similar to what Wendy said, but I want more diverse guests on our podcast. I love doing our guests episodes, and I definitely want to see season two to be filled with guests episodes, I want to bring in people from different backgrounds, backgrounds that we're not familiar with, and get them on the podcast, listen to interesting stories, you know, collaborate more, would love more experts on the podcast on those more educational topics, but also, I would, like in terms of topics, I would love to do more with in the creative space. I know, like, initially, we started off as you know, our experience in the creative industry, but I think this podcast has broadened a little bit in terms of, we cover like everything in the Asian Australian space from a perspective of us being in the creative industry. But I would definitely love to get more kind of wider in terms of the creative industry, because the creative industry is more than, you know, Wendy being a designer, me working in advertising, there's people within film, there's people who are writing, there's photographers, you know, there's so much out there, like artists, things like that, so I definitely want to do more of that. And then big long term type goals, like, I think, for me, another passion project, or another passion area of mine is mentoring or educating inspiring younger generations. So high school students working more with high schools, potentially in our area, things like that. So definitely long term goals.
Wendy
Yeah. That'd be awesome. We're both so passionate about mentoring, and we've done so many talks. But I think it's even like taking it beyond that, how can we go back to, you know, our high school and maybe do a workshop with students, that would be amazing. Because they're at such a pivotal moment in their lives, deciding what they want to do with their future and if we can influence that, or just show them what's possible beyond what they've been told. That would be amazing.
Tracy
Yeah, just to be their support because I just know, when I was in high school, like, I had all these questions, but no one to ask them to. Yeah. So yeah, I definitely think it would be helpful.
Wendy
Yeah. And I think we're very lucky to have had each other to be on the journey together and to seek opportunities beyond like, what we were exposed to. If you're doing it by yourself, it feels so daunting. And you're like, oh, who should I ask? Or who should I speak to? Or where do I go for help? And yeah, like your career advisor is one thing, but having people who are more closer to you and age as well, that's, I think that's massive.
Tracy
Yeah, agreed. So the next question, do you have any tips for anyone wanting to start a podcast?
Wendy
So I thought about, like, what helped us along the way, and what's kind of keeping us going. I think having a strong foundation built on trust and communication with the people or with the person that you're doing it with. I mean, if you're doing it by yourself, that's a little bit harder. But I think it's all about creating that relationship with that person that you're doing it with as one thing, but also having like a support network is massive as well. The second thing is delegating tasks, I think that's been super helpful. Like from the get-go, we agreed we would separate the tasks, and we would have our own responsibilities. And I think that's really nice, because we know what our roles and responsibilities are, and how we kind of put our time into it. And it makes setting aside time a lot easier for us as individuals, because that's something that we obviously struggle with. Creating a cadence to plan episodes, or record like, Notion has been a massive help. A little bit of insight into a little bit of insight into our process. Every episode that we do, we have an episode plan, we write down like questions, we write down notes, if we feel like it's necessary, but we don't write out like a complete script. And I think that really helps with knowing that we go into every session that we have, booked into the diary, knowing that this is what we're going to be talking about so we can prepare ourselves. And also like, bulk planning, when we're going to record episodes, I think there was like one time or a couple of months where we had like planned six, eight weeks in advance of when we would record when we're releasing episodes. And that was a massive help, because then you're not really scrambling. The last thing I would say is that just be yourself and being open, like you don't need to know everything. And being kind to yourself, that's massive, because I think if you put pressure on yourself to know everything, people can see right through it, and you will come off less genuine than you anticipated.
Tracy
Yeah, agreed. Mine are very similar. Similar to that, talk about what you're passionate about in terms of like, start a podcast because you're passionate about it, because you want to talk about those topics - not because you're kind of chasing clout or you're trying to chase money or what's trending, you know. Genuinely talk about what you care about. It always helps when you're talking about your own experience as well. But also do research, if you are talking about something beyond your own experiences, I think that's pretty important. I think Wendy and I really try to ensure that we educate ourselves as well before we try to, like, educate others or like, share information with other people, and we're not always gonna get it right. But I think you do need to put that effort in. And another one is similar to what Wendy said, you know, if you're co-hosting, find someone who you can trust and feel really safe around. Especially when we're talking about such vulnerable topics, I feel like I can completely rely on Wendy, we have a safe space, you know, anything goes really between us. So, teamwork makes the dream work. What else do I have? Engage with the community. I think doing a podcast can feel like a solo activity, but there's actually a big community out there that you can engage with. Wendy and I have gotten so much out of talking to other podcasters, or the Asian Australians in this space, and people are very open. So I would recommend engaging with the community, you know, by Instagram, follow them, like their posts, drop a comment, DM people that you love their work. It just really helps build up those friendships and the community to support you when you need it.
Wendy
A couple of weeks ago, I also asked our audience, if anyone had any, like, questions that were keen to ask us, we got one really great question, which I think is a really nice note to finish on which was "If there's one thing in the community or the world in general, what would you change? And why?"
Tracy
What a big question! I feel like there are a lot of a lot of things that we could change. And I feel like doing this podcast is actually one of the things we're trying to do to change a certain topic, which is diversity and inclusion. For me, another one I put down that kind of came to mind was, more accessible and diverse education from a young age. So kind of what I mean is, I feel like if we're able to teach kids from a very, very young age, to be open minded, to be kind to, you know, not discriminate, to be respectful to each other like that, that can change the world. And like literally, like if we grew up without, you know, feeling like, where people are different or judging people like, I just generally think that it will make the world a better place. If our kids grow up to be leaders in this world, and they were able to change the world for the better. Because I think things like racism, discrimination, I think it's learned, you're not, you know, you're not born as a kid and you're racist, you know? Yeah, it's stuff people pick up from, I don't know, people around them, family, friends, the external kind of circumstances. But if we're able to just educate from a very young age, I think that can make a big difference.
Wendy
Yeah. In a similar vein, I think it also stems from like, societal pressures. So my answer to this question would be getting rid of the idea that there is a right and wrong path to take. And I think this stems from, you know, growing up as Asians, there's a very kind of clear path for a lot of us in terms of like, this is how you should behave, or this is what you should do for work, and all those things. I think what that leads to is preventing us from doing things that we really want to do, unapologetically and not feel guilty about it. And I would say being a designer, like going against the grain and going into the creative industry, and kind of being that third child that always rebelled with my parents, I feel like that has allowed me to gain a level of confidence that I don't see in younger generations today, because of just people who have, say, tiger parents. It then snowballs into, you know, our later years when we go off and do full time jobs, it snowballs into us being submissive in our careers, right? We have this fear of being judged or speaking up, because we're not taught to own like, what we want to do from the very start. And I think that's super important, especially in the creative industry. If you don't own your craft, like who are you really, you know, so? Yeah, getting rid of that pressure would be, I think, yeah, a game changer.
Tracy
Yeah. Love that. Also, if we're wishing for other things, you know, four day weeks, that'd be great too. In case our employees are listening, yeah. In case you know, whoever out there in the universe is listening.
Wendy
If it's not too much to ask for, yeah.
Tracy
So we want to say like a really, really, really big, big thank you to the people who have supported us along the way that people will listen, the people who have dropped us messages, like it genuinely means so much to us. I think starting this, we probably never thought that we would even get any messages. But I don't know, I just thought like, we'll just go out there and people will listen and not say anything but we actually have received some really, really nice messages along the way. So I thought it would be a nice kind of way to close off the episode. And for us to reflect and you know, something to be proud of, is if we read through a couple of these really nice messages that we've received. So Wendy and I will take turns, we've picked out a couple of our favourite messages that we received, and we're just going to share them with you. So the first one, I'll read it, is "Thank you two so much for making my day/week been enjoying your podcast so much, and I don't think I've ever laughed, smiled, related so much to a podcast before. From the things my Mum has told me as a kid (not washing your hair before bed, and getting sick from not getting to bed early), to being in the design field/creative industry and having read similar books, and reflecting on 2021 being such a stressful and chaotic year and making intentions to set firmer boundaries, more learn time, building habits of mindfulness and meditation. So much resonated with me. So, so happy that you're sharing your experiences with us and bringing so much joy to the Asian Australian community and beyond. Can't wait for more episodes exists. xx" And I think this is one of like the first kind of messages we received, first big messages received and like that really touched me and yeah, it's really, really nice.
Wendy
Yeah I was smiling throughout all of that, mind you, this is from someone that we don't know so I feel like that's always such a shock right to the system. The second one is actually from a friend of mine/also someone that I saw as a mentor, when I was in uni, her message to us was "I love the intent you've put behind this podcast, and I'm looking forward to learning and sharing. Also, as a side note, I'm 10 years older Asian, and similarly grew up in a household that didn't have much exposure to creative fields. While I work for a corporate where I actually have a number of colleagues in the design space who share Asian heritage, I find the leadership space gets less diverse, the higher up the ladder, you go, both across gender lines and backgrounds." So hearing her experience in, you know, the space that she works in the corporate world, like that's also reaffirming to us of why doing this is so important. Like no matter what age our audience is, no matter what space they're working in, like what we're doing touches so many parts of like different industries, and different audiences as well. So that was super lovely, and nice to hear from an old friend.
Tracy
Yeah. The next one another, like kind of OG feedback that I received from the early days, which I think I always like reading back. It says, "I loved it. <3 Thank you for sharing yourself so authentically, and for telling the origin story of your friendship, too. We don't take enough time to celebrate platonic love." And I think Wendy and I really love the idea of celebrating platonic love because I feel this episode is also a celebration of our friendship. And I just loved how like that comment really encapsulated that in a way that we never knew how to express.
Wendy
Yes, we've definitely used other terms to express friendship, which I won't share but like twin from another bin.
Tracy
It's a lot more articulate than how we have.
Wendy
Yeah, the next one is also from a friend of mine. He said, "I listened to your podcast while I was doing the bay run. I'm glad I did. Haha, I found it really interesting and helpful to reflect on my own thoughts of 20s 30s and post. I've always kind of thought I've got to live up my 20s and 30s. But made me think, "Fuck, I've got to live up hard every day the rest of my life, thriving at every stage in life is different and gotta be flexible with what comes. I feel like it's like a part mental thing to feel content, but I also got to do shit get out there and make the most of it." Excuse My French.
Tracy
I love this because it was that episode that we thought "Oh, I don't know what we feel about it, you know?" So nice. Next one, from my friend from high school. She says, I" will say to that I've thoroughly enjoyed each and every one of your episodes and look forward to hearing more each week. Your podcast is one of the very few that I resonate with, which makes me so happy because I feel like I'm literally not the only person feeling/going through these things. I appreciate how it's structured, the light hearted banter and the thoughtful questions you ask your guests and each other. Honestly just feel super proud of you both keep it up ladies <3 <3." Oh, that's such a nice message reading again. Seriously. So sweet.
Wendy
The last one is from someone that came from SydneyFoodBoy's story. He said, "Love the recent podcast episode! Came across it from Sydney for boys story. Haha, I grew up in Campbelltown and now live in Liverpool, The Area is definitely an Australian geography and cultural group alone, I feel. Really loved listening, relating and reflecting on what you both talked about. I work in sales for a tech company and I would say I'm the only Westie in my specific career network, which makes things kind of lonely. Even though I love the people I work with, where I'm from, and how I sound, speak, dress, still makes me feel isolated at times, it feels forced to try to relate to your typical Inner West eastern suburbs, Northern Beaches white Aussie guy." Yeah, so much packed in there and I feel like we never also thought about what it would be like in different industries as well. So to have someone speak to us from a completely different industry, but know, that he can also relate to us is also reassuring that what we're doing is not just targeted towards the creative industry, right?
Tracy
Yeah, yeah. such lovely messages. Keep them coming, guys! Like, honestly, this is so much more than we expected and there have been like a lot more messages that people have spent time to send through to us. So we just want to say like, thank you so much for supporting us, because it does really help us kind of feel motivated, inspired to keep going. And it's not just like the niceness of the messages, but also people messaging us his thoughts and our conversation. Like we've had so many conversations off the back of people messaging us about really important topics. So I think it's really cool to be able to kind of build this small community of ours. Yeah, thank you for the support.
Wendy
Yeah. All right. It's time to wrap up on our dinner table questions. So Tracy, what is your go to song at karaoke?
Tracy
Oh, okay. Um, let me think. Oh, my God. Viva la Vida by Coldplay.
Wendy
Oh, that's a good one.
Tracy
I love that song.
Wendy
That's like a hands on shoulders with your friends swaying side to side, eyes closed type vibe, hey?
Tracy
Singing from the top of your lungs type vibe, just so emotional. And it just has good memories because Tap Tap Revolution on the phone.
Wendy
Oh my god on iPod Touch.
Tracy
Yes, on the iPod Touch. I love tap tap. By the way. We used to play all throughout high school, but the Viva la Vida was my favourite. I knew like off by heart. But also do you remember how we we had English Extension and like, our teacher played it for us as part of like an Industrial Revolution or something like that.
Wendy
I don't remember this. I just remember paying Rick Astley in class to be a joke.
Tracy
Yeah, we played a lot of music in class, but for some reason that song also reminded me of like my high school experience. So yes, that's my go-to karaoke song. What about yours?
Wendy
Mine's Untouched by The Veronicas.
Tracy
Oh classic
Wendy
Mainly because I can rap the beginning, rap sing whatever it is, like off by heart. And like you can't take a breath when you sing the beginning. So mine is definitely more of like that's the karaoke vibes that you want and I impress myself by how much I know the lyrics off every single time. Yeah, it's also like my teenage angst days, my sister and I, we used to pretend we were The Veronica twins.
Tracy
Speaking of teenage angst and other one is 'How to Save a Life' by Fray.
Wendy
Oh yes, just hits so deep.
Tracy
Yes.
Wendy
It's like sad girl vibes. Yeah, straight up. Love it.
Tracy
Second question. What is the last thing you took a picture of on your camera roll?
Wendy
Let me check.
Tracy
Do I need to check mine too?
Wendy
Oh taking a picture of the bag of chips that I was eating right before this episode. Salt and Vinegar Red Rock deli, I was sending it to my partner because we're trying to eat healthy but obviously it ain't going well and we love salt and vinegar chips.
Tracy
Potato, you know, it's a vegatable.
Wendy
Basically. What about you?
Tracy
Mine is a really cute photo of my cousin's daughter, so my neice. I don't know, second cousin, whatever you call it, I just call her my niece. And it was her first birthday yesterday so we took really cute photos of her and her holding like, the butter knife and like licking the icing off.
Wendy
Oh, that's so wholesome. Last question, Does your family have a motto? A "motto", spoke or unspoken?
Tracy
Motto? I feel like they don't have anything that they say. Or actually maybe they say like, you know, like blood, like, blood is thicker than water or whatever. Family is first. But maybe an unspoken motto is like to be generous, I think. They're always kind of reminding us to be generous. So I would say that's something at a guiding principle.
Wendy
Mine would be something that my Mum repeats me all the time when I was growing up. It's like, how you hold yourself is a reflection of how your parents raised you. So she always believed that, like, you know, if you don't show respect to your friends, parents, or don't greet them properly, they're gonna think, oh, their parents didn't raise them properly, that type of thing. And that's always stuck with me. The reason why like I make such an effort to you know, be respectful and all those types of things. Yeah. Anyway, that's it. End of Episode 20, but end of Season One.
Tracy
Wow. 20 episodes, guys, season one done and dusted. We should buy ourselves a cake or something Tracy, treat ourselves. We're constantly finding reasons to eat.
Wendy
Reasons to shop, reasons to throw a party.
Tracy
You know, what would be helpful though, if the audience could leave a review, or rating.
Wendy
Oh, yeah, that's a thing.
Tracy
Yeah, please like give us a five stars on whatever platform that you're listening to, if you enjoyed us. If you didn't, don't give a review at all, we only accept five stars.
Wendy
Don't tilt the scales, please.
Tracy
Don't do the scales, please. It will mean a lot to us if we have your support, but also DM us what you want to hear in the next season. Any questions you might have for us, what you loved, what you didn't love, any areas of improvement, like we would love to hear it or just to connect, you know, say hi to us. We'd always down for coffee, you know?
Wendy
So hopefully we have a lot of exciting things in the works for next season. So stay tuned for that. And as always, yeah, chat to us on @aseatatourtable.podcast. See you in the next season!
Tracy
Thank you. Bye!