Growing Up in ‘The Area’
EPISODE 17 — 24 JUNE 2022
ABOUT THE EP
From the brands we wear and the slang we use, to the pop culture references and even our local chicken shops, Western Sydney has an identity of its own. For us, being from South West Sydney means community, culture and home. In this episode, we talk about why we're proud of being from "the area", what it means to be a "Westie", and the stereotypes we deal with.
THE DETAILS
Surprising facts about Greater Western Sydney
The 'Westie' identity
Growing up in migrant families
Postcode prejudice
Western Sydney stereotypes - expectations vs. reality
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Wendy
Hi, friends. I feel like it's been a while since we've had a bit of a like life update before diving into the episode. Tracy and I are definitely a little bit delirious. I feel like we're just tired.
Tracy
Yeah, it's been a busy month. A busy day today as well. So Wendy, how has your last month been?
Wendy
I can't believe we're in June. Now I feel like everyone probably feels the same. I recently started a new job at a strategic consultancy. Actually, I want to call them or call us an agency because I feel like consultancy has a bit of like a big four connotation and I feel like we're more than that. But it's called Future Friendly and I started there as a senior product designer. And I feel like when you start a new job, it's quite exhausting. You kind of just trying to wrap your head around like a new routine, but also meeting people, getting used to ways of working. It's quite exhausting. So I feel like I've been trying to simplify my life in other parts, so not a lot of freelancing. And I've just recently wrapped up teaching at USYD and so I feel like a lot of new change, but also trying to simplify my life in the best way possible. But yeah, that's my past month. What about you Trace?
Tracy
Um, yeah, I feel like I still feel new at my new job. I started in January, but I feel like I've gotten finally into the rhythm with the team and the job. So I've actually been really enjoying myself at work. Never thought I will hear myself say really fun. Yes, I think my last month has been getting into the rhythm of work, building like friendships with my team, you know, getting to know people. On the personal side of things, you know, still doing volleyball, still doing the same old stuff. I caught COVID, finally, two years later, I felt so lame, I was the only person in the drive thru.
Wendy
Oh, hey, you want that, right? You don't want to be part of the big queues.
Tracy
Yeah, no, it was so 2020, but I caught COVID in 2022. So it was, I mean, it was nice, because I knew what to expect, since a lot of people around me already had COVID. But I wasn't that sick. I was only sick for like two days, really. So I spent the rest of my isolation just catching up with TV shows, I watched Bling Empire. I don't even know, but just a lot of random TV.
Wendy
You also sewed right?
Tracy
Oh, yeah, yeah, I was sewing as well. I haven't sown in a while because I've been busy with work.
Wendy
That's nice. Well, today's episode is all about growing up in Western Sydney. So we'll dive into a bit around, I guess, an insight into the life of being growing up in the west or being a "Westie", in quotation marks, discussing how we grew up in South West Sydney, and how that's impacted our identity, and discussing the stereotypes that people have of Western Sydney. And I think more specifically, it's like, people outside of Western Sydney, but also talking about the views of people who live within Western Sydney as well. And we did something a little bit different this time, like crowdsourcing answers from our listeners, which I think is really cool. Yeah, so I think we'll be sharing some of that.
Tracy
Yeah. Especially for a topic like Western Sydney, everyone has an opinion on this, if you're from Sydney, or New South Wales anyway so it'll be fine because I think I've personally had a very, like interesting relationship with being from the west, growing up to now. I think my identity has shifted and changed and what it means to be from the West has also evolved a bit as well. So for those who don't know what Western Sydney is or where Western Sydney is, it's sometimes also referred to as Greater Western Sydney. As you might hear in the media, Western Sydney is a part of the Sydney Metro Area comprising of 14 local government areas. Western Sydney has the most multicultural suburbs in the country, with 38% of people speaking a language other than English at home. And if you look at Cabramatta, specifically, which is where we're both from in that area, Cabramatta is made up of 87.7% of people from non-English speaking backgrounds, which is the highest anywhere in Australia, excluding remote indigenous communities. And that's a fact I didn't know. Cabramatta was like, one of the largest non-English speaking suburbs.
Wendy
Yeah, that's massive. And obviously, we’re a part of that, like, 38% 87.7%, like, our families are a part of that statistic, you know. So it's like, reflecting on that. I think I forget that that's a part of my identity as well. Like, obviously, we talked about language and I always tell people like I speak to my parents in Cantonese, even just yesterday talking to one of my friends from work. She was really surprised about that. And I'm just so used to like all of my friends and people that I grew up with not speaking English to their parents.
Tracy
That's true. Like, I feel like that percentage seems really large. But when you're walking down Cabramatta, literally nobody speaks English.
Wendy
Yeah, you're in a different world.
Tracy
Yeah, it feels like you're really in like a little Asia, you know, little Vietnam or Cambodia or whatever it is when you're in Cabramatta. On top of that, people from Greater Western Sydney come from more than 170 countries and speak over 100 different languages, which is pretty crazy. It's the main centre of Australian migration with people coming from India, China, Iraq, the Philippines and Vietnam.
Wendy
I feel like that's even more shocking to me, the fact that it's over like 170 countries and over 100 different languages. I feel like I'm just so used to the classics like Cantonese, Mandarin and also, like Vietnamese as well. I was trying to explain like, Teo Chew to someone as well. And it was just like, it's a dialect of like Chinese and it's so hard to explain. I guess it's more of a minor language you don't see as common, especially with like, I realised the other day, I don't know who I was talking to, but Khmer as well like, from like Cambodian families. It's like, people don't also don't realise that that's the language.
Tracy
Yeah or like Thai. I don't know.
Wendy
Yeah. And like we grew up with friends who speak at home so I don't think it's as shocking to us but yeah, just seeing the stats, it's crazy and I feel like people don't talk about it enough.
Tracy
Yeah, also Wendy and I are from like the Fairfield Local Council area so you know, that's Cabramatta, Canley Vale, Bonnyrigg, that area but Greater Western Sydney covers so much more. You've got Blacktown, Rooty Hill, Merrylands, you know, like everything on that train line. So there's a lot of more diverse pockets around those suburbs as well. But I guess our experience is skewed to our pocket within Western Sydney, which is South West Sydney, actually.
Wendy
I think when I tell people where I'm from, I always identify like, it's South West Sydney. Western Sydney, I think sometimes people that I know that are from like the Blacktown area, that's the term that they use. But let's talk about the Westie identity. So like, what it was like growing up in the west and how we identify or how others identify us.
Tracy
Yeah. Do you identify yourself as a Westie, like, do you tell people that?
Wendy
I don't think I use the term Westie that often, I just say I'm from the South West, like, I'm from the South West, in the area. I don't know. I think like sometimes you jokingly say like, oh, yeah, you're a Westie. But I don't use it that much. What about you?
Tracy
I feel like I use it quite a bit, actually. Initially, I'm like, "Yeah, I'm from South West Sydney." But if I'm like, in a more casual environment, I'm like, Yeah, I'm a Westie gal, like, that's my identity. I am a Westie gal.
Wendy
How do people usually respond to that?
Tracy
Um, it depends. I think it depends on where they a from. That's a tricky question. I think they don't know, South West Sydney, it's kind of like the stereotypes that come up. But yeah, obviously they're trying to be polite about it. They're like, "Oh, okay, cool." But you can tell them that they don't really know what you mean.
Wendy
Yeah. They have no, I guess, like, understanding of what you're referring to geographically as well.
Tracy
Yeah. But I think most people know. Like, if you're from Sydney, you say you're from Western Sydney, they kind of know what areas you're talking about.
Wendy
I think I would use Westie in the sense of like relating to someone else who is also from the area. Yeah. But I also say like South West Sydney because I feel like for people who aren't familiar with the area, it's easier for them to orient like where we're referring to location wise. But on Wikipedia, Westie is often stereotyped as people from the outer suburbs who are unintelligent, under educated, unmotivated, unrefined, lacking in fashion sense, working class or unemployed. I'm surprised about the lacking in fashion.
Tracy
Yeah it's quite harsh, you know. Yeah, like, it's like the stereotypical, you know, definition or like the things and negative connotations that come up with being a Westie is quite harsh.
Wendy
Yeah, on Wikipedia. Is this like, in general?
Tracy
Yeah Sydney based. It's interesting because I feel like out of all the identities in Sydney, like if you're from the Eastern suburbs or the Northern Beaches... if you're Westie, I feel like that's probably the place that gets the most slack. It's like the place people are warned against. People make jokes about being from the West, like, you don't really hear people making jokes about coming from the Eastern suburbs. I mean, they do in a sense, they're like, "Oh, you're from the Eastern Suburbs." But it's all about privilege.
Wendy
Yeah, I feel like there's more like positive connotations around that, like, than us saying, we're from the West, and then people kind of like shying away from the topic. Whereas when you talk about the Eastern suburbs, like it's just like a joking manner, and it's kind of acceptable. Whereas, like, when you talk about you being from the West, I feel like people who are not familiar with it kind of don't want to talk about it, or they just change the subject.
Tracy
Yeah, they don't know how to approach it, I think. Yeah, it's like, they know, the connotations are negative.
Wendy
I mean, that's the premise of this conversation, right? Like to, I guess, educate people about what this identity is all about. And even though there are so many negative connotations about it, I feel like, if we talk about it, and we open the conversation, it's easier for people to understand it but also be open to talking about it. And also, if we talk about our own experiences, and how it's actually positively impacted us, people will see the light in it.
Tracy
Yeah. And it's like, oh, you're from the West, and you're not what I thought the West would be like as well. For you Wendy, you what does it mean to be a Westie? What in your head is like classic Westie or someone from the area? What classifies that?
Wendy
Um, honestly, when I think about being from the West, I'm like, it's all about like, knowing each other and like, being familiar, having a common ground to connect with someone who's actually a stranger, but being in the area instantly, like, "Oh, my God, we can connect!" We're familiar with how, like, you know, each other have probably grown up, we probably come from really similar backgrounds, and it's almost like a common ground for us to build a friendship on. But also on the flip side, when I think about being a Westie, I immediately jump to like, what might the other person be thinking about me? Or what might they have heard about where I grew up, or where I went to school and like maybe like lack of access to education, or lack of access to, you know, higher education, or financial benefits and all that kind of stuff? So I feel like there's like two sides to it. I worry about what others would think of me but on the other side, I'm actually really proud of it. Because I'm like, when I talk about it, I feel like it's a connecting point when I meet someone who's from the area. And it's like, such a small area that somebody knows somebody and like, you probably like distant cousins, probably related somehow.
Tracy
Yeah, like someone knows your mum.
Wendy
Yeah. Like even when you find someone who speaks the same language as you, right? You're just like, oh, shit, this is so cool. And you instantly start speaking the language. I just feel like it just breaks down all the walls that you feel when someone's not from the same area.
Tracy
Yeah, I feel like there's a big focus on community where we're from. I think Western Sydney, I think of community as the first thing when I think of it. Like you said, I think there's two sides, the side where when you see someone, you think "I think they're from the West" and you're instantly connected to them. Like for me personally, when I look at somebody and they kind of speak like us, you know, I think we have a Westie like twang to our language I think. When we speak, we don't really sound like people from the Eastern suburbs or the Northern Beaches, I think because maybe we usually use more slang, and our terminology as well.
Wendy
Like things like "the area".
Tracy
Yeah, we say "the area" or I don't know...It's just like, it feels like we talk like MSN language. That's what it is.
Wendy
I think there are definitely the way we phrase things or the way we talk about things probably like relates to that, in a sense. But I just use like "from the area" so casually and I expect people to get on my level to understand what I'm talking about.
Tracy
Even when we talk about fashion, I feel like there's a specific type of fashion in this area as well maybe. I feel like we're kind of casual sportswear vibes.
Wendy
I don't know if I agree with that. No, I just feel like... I don't know, I'm not sure if there's like a particular fashion. But I feel like for specific like events, there may be like a fashion look and feel attached to it. Yeah, for example, like going to a rave, people wearing sportswear.
Tracy
Yeah.
Wendy
Not to generalise, I'm so sorry.
Tracy
We don't go to raves, we don't know.
Wendy
But also like, because like athleisure in Eastern suburbs versus South West Sydney is completely different.
Tracy
The brands that we're accessing is different. Maybe like Assembly Label is maybe more Eastern suburbs. But Nike, Adidas could be more Western suburbs.
Wendy
Yeah, think about where these stores set up shop as well, like, Assembly Label. I know that one of their stores is in Bondi. Would you ever see an Assembly Label in like, say Liverpool Westfields? I don't think so. That's another thing. Like if you think about the Westfields in Liverpool and say Parramatta, the shops that exist within those shopping complexes is so different, to say, if you were to go to Bondi Junction. It's really interesting, because I used to work at Bailey Nelson and you can tell like, I guess, like where optom companies set up as well compared to like in a richer area, it's more like high end, versus I know with Oscar Wiley, they set up in like more Asian influence areas, because they're founders as Asian as well. So I feel like those things come into play.
Tracy
Yeah, I guess in our area, it's more so like, because we are like technically lower socio-economic status, the store, the brands that are present in our areas are more affordable.
Wendy
Yeah, yeah. 100%
Tracy
And you were talking about chicken shops recently. I think that's an interesting thing to bring up.
Wendy
Yeah, I feel like I didn't realise this until someone on my previous workplace brought it up. I think she was from Brazil, so she didn't understand the context of like chicken shops within Sydney. So the obsession with El Jannah's, the obsession with like Chargrill Charlies, Frangos. And then throughout this discussion, like we all just collectively realised that, chicken shops within Sydney, are sprawled out based on the socio economics demographics in that area and it is tied to which chicken shop in that area. So for example, El Jannah's exists or kind of started in Granville, but spread out to like Smithfield, Punchbowl, which is kind of like lower SES.
Tracy
It's also maybe because, like, those cultures are in the areas where they will consume that.
Wendy
Yeah, and then toggle Chargrill Charlies which also has charcoal chicken, but they have like salads and all this other stuff. And their salads are more like I would say like, pear rocket salad, whereas like, at EJs, it's like Tabouli, yes. And so, that exists moreso in Eastern Suburbs contexts and it just goes to show you which chicken shop exists in that postcode is...not directly correlated, but you can kind of tell what socio-economic status, those people of that area is known for.
Tracy
Yeah, it's funny because like, I think I've actually had this conversation at work, too. I just haven't realised it but it's like, what's your local chicken shop? Right?
Wendy
Yeah.
Tracy
Is that chicken sandwiches or they think Chargrill Charlie's? And then you know, people were saying like, Le Mono? What's it called?
Yeah, there's one in Casula.
Yeah, the one in Casula. I definitely know people who go to Le Mono, El Jannahs...
Yeah... Hawas.
It's quite interesting, actually.
Wendy
Like Red Lea Chicken.
Tracy
Classic.
Wendy
Sorry. I didn't explain that very well, but I hope people understand. I just think things like that, ot's like you don't pick up on how those things differ within just one city, or a single state. And like, you can just see the correlations between like, things like shops and you know, the people that live there as well. Yeah, we can't forget Frangos as well, I think that started as like Portuguese Chicken in Petersham which is like Inner West as well where a lot of Italian families live as well.
Tracy
Was anything else like what defines you know, being a Westie? Anything that comes hand in hand with this identity?
Wendy
We've spoken about our accent, language, slang.
Tracy
I've definitely had people go "You sound like you're from South West Sydney." But I've also had people go "You don't sound like you're from South West Sydney." I get two. Sometimes it's like... I get the people who go, "Oh, I had no idea you're from the West." I don't know what what what that means.
Wendy
I feel like they are probably comparing you to other people that they know who are also from the West. I'm making an assumption here. But I've had the opposite where a lot of people tell me that I don't sound like I'm from the West, like another Asian has told me that he thought I was from the North. And I was just like, I didn't know what to make of that. I was kind of like, should I be like, surprised? Offended? Honoured? Not sure. But I was just like, it's just interesting how people make up that decision about you or have that impression of you based on how you speak. And, I don't think it's an indication of whether you're more or less educated, I think it's just indicative of probably how you grew up and how much English you spoke as well, and how you developed like, the way that you speak. Because I learned English from my two older sisters. Growing up, I was that annoying little sister that just copied everything that they said, and that's how I learned English. And I feel like maybe you were the first in your family, possibly...You don't have anyone to learn English.
Tracy
That's true as well.
Wendy
So that may be a factor that plays into it as well. But someone told me that I sound like my sisters, like the way that I've speak. And it's just like, that's, I guess that's how I'm like thinking possibly like that's why I speak the way that I do, like the way that I phrase things, the language that I use. Yeah. Yeah, I never really thought about it until like, recently, someone said, like, "Oh, you really sound like your sister." And she went to school with my sister.
Tracy
Yeah, that's really interesting. I guess for me, I learned it from school and my Mum trying to, I don't know...
Wendy
Yeah, those things play a big part in it and I think you'd never really realised until you stop to reflect.
Tracy
Another thing that I don't know is specific to Western Sydney or maybe it's like more so migrant families, but do you feel that you miss out on a lot of pop culture references?
Wendy
What do you mean?
Tracy
As in, if I'm at work, and then people are making references to like, a movie from the 80s or a movie from the 90s music, like classic Australian music or classical Australian movies, actors, actresses, like references they'll make to certain pop culture that was existent in their parents age.
Wendy
100%.
Tracy
Whereas now I have to explain I grew up with my grandparents, they don't speak English, they were from overseas. I was exposed to Asian pop culture, not the standard Australian pop culture.
Wendy
Actually never thought about. Yeah. Recently when I went to my new workplace like, somebody asked me on Friday drinks, "What is like the worst movie you've ever watched? Like if it was on TV, you can't stop yourself from watching it." And I was just like, "I can't really think of a movie." And like people were referring to like, really old school movies. And I was just like, am I just uncultured or? Now that I think about it, actually, yeah, like, I think I grew up with a lot of the culture that my sister exposed me to. It wasn't necessarily like pop culture or like, mainstream type of stuff, or like, Australian music is a big one. Because a lot of people that I've talked to have said, like, "Oh, I love this song. Like my parents used to play all the time for me when I was a kid." And I was just like, "What did my parents play for me when I was a kid?"
Tracy
It was just like Chinese music.
Wendy
Yeah, exactly. You hear Chinese like karaoke classics and you instantly know what that song is. And I feel like that's the equivalent experience for a white person, right? Or an Australian family. But yeah, now that you bring it up, I'm like "Okay, I'm not just uncultured. We just grew up with different, I guess, pop culture."
Tracy
Exactly. Yeah. Because I used to be like, the only person in my team who would be like, "That reference just totally went past my head. I have no idea what you're referring to." Yeah, and everyone was laughing. I'm just like, "I've never seen that movie." And they're like, "What? You've never seen that movie. Where was your childhood?" I always get that. And I was like, "I just had a different childhood from you. Because I didn't grow up with Australian parents."
Wendy
Wow. I feel like I'm gonna try and like, let's say that, like, it's not a formula to to respond to someone, but I've always just kind of stayed quiet when I didn't really get the reference. But I feel like I want to try that because I want to see what people's responses will be. How do people usually respond to you when you say that?
Tracy
I don't know. They're just open to it and or they'll just say like, "Okay, we'll catch you up. We're gonna catch you up." Or like a streaming moving night or something where we would watch all the classic movies or whatever like that. Yeah, I remember my old place, every time they made a new reference. I was like, "I don't know." And they'll look at me and say "Tracy probably doesn't know this one." And I'm like, "You're right. I don't know." And they're like add it to the list.
Wendy
Well, I think that's a really positive outcome, because then they kind of recognise that you probably don't understand what they're talking about. They're inviting you to learn, which is nice, right?
Tracy
And it's like we can pick it up, I can understand like I know what you're referencing, but I just never seen that movie before. You know?
Wendy
But on the flip side, even pop culture references now, things that we know such as 88 Rising. When I say like, that's my favourite, I really like some of the artists from that record label. People were just like, what, like, what is 88rising? And it's just like, that just goes to show that split, I guess.
Tracy
Yeah, I used to tell my workmates about Terrace House and they wouldn't know, no one understands. I'm like "It's kind of like Japanese Big Brother." And I'll be tired the next day and they'll ask, "Were you watching Japanese Big Brother?" Yes.
Wendy
I think that's really nice, it's the sharing of cultures. And, you know, when you're in a place that invites that, I think, that really reaffirms that, like, you shouldn't be ashamed of where you came from, you should be really proud and open about it, you should share it with other people to help them understand, you know. Rather than being like, "you would never understand where I came from," and it having like, a negative experience for everyone.
Tracy
Yeah I think it's just like about sharing the positives that you have from being a Westie, of being from South West Sydney, and then like you said, exchanges of culture and experience. So on that note, let's talk about postcode prejudice. Have you experienced this before? Is it something you think about? I guess, in a nutshell, is your postcode affecting you negatively, like where you're from? You know, being from 2166, people might be prejudiced towards you, because you're from Cabramatta.
Wendy
I feel like I've always been so proud of being from 2166 that I'm just like, "Yeah, repping!" You know, like, I feel like in the era, you talk to other people, like "Yeah, 2166 represent," and people know exactly what you're talking about. But if you were to use that reference at work, people will be like, "What are you on about?" Yeah. But because I've always been proud of where, I've come from and the opportunities that I've been afforded to, and how I feel like I'm really lucky that I grew up in Cabramatta, because it's taught me resilience and hard work, and all those things. I've never felt like, people have shut me down because of it, not that I've seen firsthand anyway. I feel like thinking about things like if people judge me on my job application, if I put 2166, would they ever judge me for that? I feel like nowadays, not really, maybe back in the day, probably when there was more of a reputation of Cabramatta being a gang area, or having high crime rates, I feel like that probably brought negative connotations to it. I think if I grew up in that time, I would feel I guess, more fearful about what other people think of me. But I think now it's like, really something to be really proud of and I wear that with so much confidence that I feel like, it doesn't invite people to question it.
Tracy
Yeah, I agree. I think it's more so like, oh, they might have initial reaction go, "Oh, you're from that area," and they have all these thoughts about what that means. But once they get to know you, it's like, oh, okay, like, yeah, it's not what I thought. I think, yeah, I feel the same.
Wendy
I feel like for both of us, we are such confident people that perhaps we don't feel like we need to hide it, or we don't feel the shame attached to it. But I think, you know, acknowledging for some people that might carry a lot of weight. And so, you know, for some people, it might be hard for them to do things like putting the address on something like a job application, because they just feel what impression that might bring.
Tracy
Yeah, you know, I think for me, like the only thing would be like, in my workplaces that I've been in, I tend to be the only person from Western Sydney. People tend to be like, close to the CBD from the Eastern suburbs, probably. And not that I'm ashamed of it. It's just like something, I take note of. I'm like, "Oh, that's interesting. I'm the only one from this area." So for me, it feels like I need to educate people about this area, rather than hide it.
Wendy
Yeah. So when people ask me where I'm from now that I've moved out, I'm not in the area, I'll say like, "I've moved to here," which is outside of the area, but then I follow up with... "Oh, but my parent'ss house is in South West Sydney. I grew up in South West Sydney in Cabramatta." Yeah. And I feel like I want to say that because I want people to know where I grew up and what influenced me to be the person that I am today. So I feel like that's a really important thread that I want to keep kind of reiterating to people because, like you, I want to educate people that it's a really big part of my identity, and I want to invite them to ask more questions or be more curious.
Tracy
That's really good. Because I feel like even for us, I think I'm guilty of it. When I ask people "Oh, where do you live?" And they'll say, Bondi, Newtown, wherever they say, I don't even think, "Oh, where did they grow up?" I think the question is, "Where did you grow up?" If that makes sense almost, because a lot of people have moved out of home. So maybe they are actually from Western Sydney or from Wollongong or whatever it is, but you never know. Because you're just asking the surface level question, "Where do you live right now?"
Wendy
Yeah, I think a couple of my colleagues have recently found out they grew up like in regional New South Wales so I think that's a really important, I guess, realisation for both of us. Because, you know, we want people to know where we came from and we have such strong a sense of identity attached to it, so we should acknowledge the same for other people as well.
Tracy
Yeah. Have you had any negative reactions to you from from being in the area?
Wendy
No, not in a professional sense. But I've heard this phrase a couple of times - "I could never date a girl from the area." Not towards me but I've heard it from other people in passing, which is really interesting.
Tracy
I've never heard that before. Did they say why?
Wendy
I don't want to date an LG.
Tracy
Whoa...
Wendy
I'm not exposing names here. But I feel like people probably think...maybe on the apps, there is a reputation for that kind of stuff.
Tracy
Yeah, I guess being an LG is also maybe linked to being from the area.
Wendy
Yeah, possibly. You know, I think culturally, when you grow up somewhere, you're probably going to dress very similar to the people you hang around and the people that you grew up with and there's nothing wrong with that. You own the way you dress or who you want to be but when it comes to preferences in that kind of context, in a dating context, people might be like, "Yeah, I don't want to date someone from the area." Maybe because of the personality types have attached to the area. I've never dug deeper into it because it's kind of said as a joke in passing. But now that I think about I'm like, I think I'm not sure if it's less so about, you know, their financial status or anything like that. But I think perhaps also, it's about cultural differences. I think sometimes we say or what I've heard from other people is "I could never date someone from the North." Because the way that you grew up is just completely different.
Tracy
Yeah, I think we're all probably also guilty of post code prejudice like to non-Western Sydney people as well.
Wendy
Yeah. And when I think about why people say that, perhaps it's also because, like, from a family stance, like, will your families get along? If you've grown up on completely different sides of the bridge. Or are they thinking about lifestyles, seeing eye-to-eye on values?
Tracy
When they say like, I don't want to date an LG, that's kind of a generalisation of this area.
Wendy
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I guess that's why sometimes people are surprised I'm from the area because I don't look like an LG. There are no, I don't wanna say there are no people. But there are non-LG groups, LGs are just like a sub section,
Tracy
Like it's like subgroup?
Wendy
Yeah. You can't generalise that everyone from the area just looks one way or speaks one way or dresses one way. Just because you've been exposed to them in a very particular context. You know, everywhere you go, there's going to be a variation of people and their interests will vary as well. But I think yeah, I've just heard "Yeah, I would never date an LG from an area." Next time I hear it. I'm gonna go deeper into it.
Tracy
Yeah. Anything else?
Wendy
Oh, no, I think that's the main thing.
Tracy
I get, all the time, "Do you have to wear a bulletproof vest?" Literally all the time. I actually recently heard it last month, as a joke from a colleague but I don't know. It's a joke and I can take the joke, but it's just something that keeps coming up. And I was like, that's not the first time I've heard that. Like, throughout uni, it's like, "Do you have to wear bulletproof vests? Hahaha." You know, it's a joke and like, I'm not personally offended by it. But it's just interesting that that's the first reaction people say to you, when you say you're from the West, like, they think it's dangerous.
Wendy
I think growing up, when you're in high school, you do hear that a bit. Because I feel like at that age, you're not really thinking about what repercussions your words will have. If you said something like that to someone else, but I feel like you know, I've worked in places that really value like diversity and inclusion. And I feel like people who work within the company have a greater awareness about that type of stuff. So I personally have never been asked that or told that. I feel like people who say that probably have a lot of ignorance, that's my criticism. And it's just like, if you're saying that to other people, you should check yourself. What I've heard is actually positive, it's been more so like, oh, there's really great food down in the area. Yeah, or like, I know, so and so from that area as well and it's so much more inviting and positive. I've had a completely different experience.
Tracy
Yeah, I get both of it. When I say I'm from the area, they're like, "Oh, the food's really good." Yeah, but sometimes I do get though is "It's a bit dangerous over there."
Wendy
Yeah, I guess, I've been pretty lucky not to have had, I guess, any negative experiences. But I do know of someone where, I think she went to a conference and somebody was like, "Oh, I think you're gonna take the cash from my wallet," or something like that. Or like, "You can take the cards from my wallet" or something like that. Like, I'm definitely not like telling the story right but I do remember her, speaking up about it and good on her. And I think we need that, like when people say stuff like that, call them out on it, you know, it's not okay to say things like that. And if it makes you feel uncomfortable, I think when we were in high school, maybe we would have let it pass and we wouldn't have said anything, because you don't want people to you don't want to cause trouble. But now it's almost like we're in a position where we can change things for people who are younger than us, you know, who are going to go into the workforce as well. So we may as well create a foundation for them to be confident in where they came from, and be proud to kind of call people out on their bullshit.
Tracy
Yeah, yeah. Don't be afraid to be like, "Oh, they're gonna think XYZ of me, because I'm from this area."
Wendy
Yeah. Yeah. I think behind the scenes, there's probably other stereotypes that people think but it's not something that is suitable to bring up. Yeah, things like Centrelink payments, like being on like government benefits. I feel like, throughout COVID, like we were really singled out. Especially like, you know, our LGA being Fairfield, like you never saw, I guess, the rates of COVID rising into one more affluent areas. You always saw them being kind of, I guess, more vocal about, oh, this this many cases in, you know, the Fairfield Local Government area. And it just made you feel like we were being singled out in the media. Whether it was intentional or not, I don't know. But like, you know, there was a lot of noise around this and I remember feeling very strongly about it. Like, why our area? Everyone at the end of the day is a human being we all have the same genetic makeup and system. And it's just like, I feel like we were very... villainised. Yeah, yeah. And we were placed at the like the top or the front page of the newspaper.
Tracy
Constantly. I think our LGA was like constantly on the news in a negative way, during the pandemic last year. Despite big outbreaks in other areas of Sydney, for some reason, this Fairfield area got the most negative press about as well. And I think there was also a lot of talk around how, because there's a lot of migrants in this area, there's a lot of multi generational households, and people visiting their aunts, uncles, or whatever, grandparents, and like being that being the cause of the spread. But I feel like there was no empathy for actually what it was like in the area, it's people who are not from the area talking, making their assumptions.
Wendy
Yeah and it's also like, think about reasons why families might be visiting each other, like it might be to look after someone who doesn't have access to the right health needs. You know, and I think, like, people are so quick to judge based on facts that they hear in the media, but, you need to think beyond that, or you need to... if you're curious about it, like ask someone you might know. I think I never take things from like the media on face value. I feel like when there was that outbreak at the end of, I think it was December 2020, when there was one in like the Northern Beaches.
Tracy
Oh, yeah they shut the bridge.
Wendy
Yeah. The bridge, right. Yeah. And it was pretty dire. Yeah. But when you think about like, what people think of that after they read that headline, versus what they would think after they read a headline about like, multiple households spreading.
Tracy
I feel like when that news came out, everyone's like, "Oh, how unfortunate," like it was just unlucky that the outbreak happened in was the Northern Beaches area. Whereas when there was an outbreak in the West, "Oh, it's because like you said, there's all these households like visiting each other," like it might not even be true, but it's just the assumption people make about it.
Wendy
Yeah, the blame game yeah, right?
Tracy
They're so quick to judge and I feel like that all people aren't following rules, people aren't fascinated - things like that as well.
Wendy
I think it was pretty awful to have to live through that because it's just like, you're already so tired about this whole pandemic that's going on and now you need to fight the stereotypes that it's kind of like, you know, people are only just...I don't want to say starting to get over, you know, us being the most dangerous area, but crime rates are going down and I feel like we are building a new identity for ourselves in terms of Cabramatta. But I feel like now, the pandemic has brought up like this new false identity or reputation in the area.
Tracy
I think the positive thing, though, like you said, is that people are changing. I think the younger generation, they're kind of leading media and the voices you hear, so I think it was more so like, there was all this bad press around us. But I feel like people who are educated, they're not really buying it, as well. Yeah. And we were the only ones with the restrictions as well, for a period of time.
Wendy
Yeah, and then it became like a statewide thing. But at one point, it was just like, I just felt like we had a target on our backs. And, you know, when I talked about it with my colleagues, and I was just like, "Yeah, I'm part of one of the LGAs that has been locked down." And they didn't really know how to respond to it..."Oh, poor you." Like, you guys don't know...outside of like the LGA, it's like, you have no idea what it's like, being on the receiving end of it.
Tracy
Exactly. Yeah. And I think another kind of stereotype that I get is that, "Isn't that where the farms are like?" They're like, "Isn't that whoop whoop, in the middle of nowhere, like being from South West Sydney or Western Sydney? Like, do you even have civilisation out there? Or are they shopping centres?" Like I've definitely heard those in the past.
Wendy
That's dire! Holy sh*t.
Tracy
I'm like, no, we're living a normal life out here as well... Like, we're not that far from the city.
Wendy
Do you think it's because like, in your industry, there's not a lot of Asians or people from Western Sydney? Maybe who just have no exposure to it.
Tracy
Maybe... But I heard it during uni as well, but I felt like during uni, it was people were probably a bit more stereotypical. Or prejudiced?
Wendy
Yeah, prejudice.
Tracy
It's interesting. Well, yeah, it could be I feel like there's not a lot of people like me in my industry.
Wendy
Oh, one thing I just thought about was like, one of my friends came to visit my parents house down Cabramatta, or we were having a conversation, something like that. And I was telling her about how I've got bars on my windows. And she was just like, "What do you mean you have those? Are you living in a prison?" And I was like "No, I just have bars on my windows. I always have."
Tracy
Yeah, I've never questioned it.
Wendy
Yeah, I never questioned. But then if you drive around the north...After that conversation, when I was like, kind of like just driving around Sydney, I realised that like, some areas have really open windows. And my first thought is like, "Damn, how easy is it to break into the house?" Okay, I'm not a criminal but like, you know.
Tracy
Why do we have bars on the windows, actually? I'm literally thinking about that. It's like, why do we have bars? Is it because it's dangerous?
Wendy
I think so. Like it prevents people from coming into your house or breaking windows. Not all houses have bars but I feel like it's a very common thing.
Tracy
Yeah. Interesting. And things like making sure you lock your doors, lock your houses, lock your cars. I mean, that's pretty real in this area.
Wendy
Yeah or waiting for your friend who walk into the house. Yeah, that stuff is like for a reason and it's so that nothing bad happens to everyone.
Tracy
Yeah, I guess maybe growing up in this area, maybe we're hyper aware of safety, potentially. We're not going to deny that this place is like, not as safe as affluent suburbs, but it's not as the media portrays it, I don't think.
Wendy
Yeah, 100%. I think like, unfortunately, we're not given the same opportunities as like, you know, some other areas out there or like, because maybe we're in the first in our family to go to uni... or, you know, we haven't had the luxury of being taught by parents how to do our homework and stuff like that. I feel like those lack of opportunities maybe perhaps breeds higher crime rates. And as a result, yeah, it is more dangerous, like growing up in our area, but I also actually feel like the hyper awareness of my safety, I'm so grateful for that. And I feel like sometimes people really nonchalant about those things and perhaps, I'm a stress head about those things. I'm always like lock your cars, make sure you've locked it or make sure you remember where you parked your car.
Or like don't put your phone in your car where it's visible because someone might break into your car? Do you get that? I know my parents are like, don't put your wallet there, don't put your phone there, someone would break in.
Oh no, I've never had that. Mine is more-so, I would cover like my bags, if I leave it in the car or put it in the boot, like stuff like that. You just like think of the worst case scenario, right? Because that stuff does happen.
Tracy
Or like holding your keys when you're walking home at night.
Wendy
Yeah, that's a real problem, right? Or like, parking at a very particular station because like one station is more dangerous than the other, or like it's more quiet. Yeah, stuff like that. I guess on a more lighthearted note, another stereotype I've thought about was bad drivers, like people being known for being bad drivers in Western Sydney. But honestly, I think everyone in Sydney is a bad driver.
Tracy
Agreed
Wendy
No matter where you go.
Tracy
Especially when it rains.
Wendy
Yeah, you're gonna face shitty drivers.
Tracy
It could also be because our road infrastructures aren't as good as other places, causing congestions. Who knows? But on that topic, we went out to all our listeners and asked for what are stereotypes and misconceptions you've heard of Greater Western Sydney or Western Sydney or South West Sydney? So maybe we just read a couple. I think we're ready to touch on a couple, but it's pretty interesting to read through what people think of the area.
Wendy
So we've got like, lower cost of living, which we've talked about, poor, high crime rate, crime, it's dangerous and you can get stabbed for looking at someone in the eye. Oh, my God dire! But yep, rings true.
Tracy
Yeah. I mean, like fair, like I think we are poorer which relates to high crime rates. But I don't feel like my life is at risk every time I walk out the door, which I think sometimes people will like the the see like that.
Wendy
Gangsters, given the gang history in Cabramatta, 5T, bogan, diverse, middle of nowhere, Westie, traffic and low environmental focus.
Tracy
Yeah. Do you feel like that kind of sums up or like, accurate? What do you think?
Wendy
Yeah, I think that is pretty accurate especially around like, lower cost of living, poor, high crime rate. It's nice to see that, like, diverse came through, because I think that's like a positive, right? It's like balancing out. Like, we know that there are all these negative stereotypes, but there are also those positive ones as well.
Tracy
And then we also ask what comes to mind when you think of Western Sydney? And these are really nice, actually, like, I think these are the balance so you said of the negative stereotypes. So we've got people saying "The Area, home, family, my family - so family came up a lot actually and that's for me as well. When I think of this area, I think of community, family, culture. Someone said "Fully sick cuz."
Wendy
I love that, shoutout to whoever said that.
Tracy
That's an example of the type of language we're talking about, the slang we use in this area, like "Fully sick cuz." Ethnic communities, multicultural, so kind of what Wendy said, diversity comes up a lot in this area, which I love. What else?
Wendy
Friendly people, cool cats only, really good authentic food - yeah, plus one. Food, authentic food, amazing fresh produce, tonnes of food options within a short distance, affordable real estate, which is a hot topic right now, it's the wilderness, anything can happen in the west. That sounded like a Haiku.
Tracy
Food came up huge, I think food is probably the most. Yeah, just quickly looking there, food is probably the most popular.
Wendy
I think that speaks to our like culture, right? Like everything that we know and grew up with is kind of built around this like idea of being at the table or having a meal together, that's quality time together, or sharing of food and having diverse restaurants, even on John Street in Cabramatta. Like you can walk down that street and you can get so many different types of cuisines, you can basically experience Asia in one and I feel like that's rare within Sydney, like you're not gonna get that anywhere else.
Tracy
It's very special, because it's at a place where a lot of migrants settled. So you really get that home, cooking in restaurants and it's not just Asian foods, but like Middle Eastern foods, things like that as well and it's very cheap.
Wendy
Yeah. The other one that jumped out at me was the amazing fresh produce. I have had people that I've spoken to say, "Yeah I still go down to Cabra every weekend to get my groceries." Because I think it's really easy to get, not just like fresh veggies, but also things like seafood and everything. There are very specific like areas within Cabramatta where you can get all that stuff and it's just like, people going back to like where they grew up to get their weekly shop which I think is so lovely. You're supporting the local businesses, you're supporting the community, I really love that. And I think I can relate because, you know, having moved out, I'm just like, "Oh, I really want Asian vegetables that my Mum puts in this soup." And like, I literally went to the grocery store the other day, and I looked at like these Asian vegetables and I was like, I think that's the one that my Mum makes with the soup that I like, so I'm going to try it anyway. And it turned out to be that, you know, and so I think that's an experience in itself as well.
Tracy
Yeah. I love that people think, friendly people. I think that as well, to be honest. I think people from the west or something, I don't know, maybe it's because I'm biassed, but I feel like we're more open to other cultures, other people probably because we're like, from immigrant backgrounds ourselves which is why we're open to the food, the cultures. But there's just something about once I'm once I know people are from the area, I feel so much more comfortable around them. Yeah, it's just really a relaxed vibe.
Wendy
It's also I think, because we have had the lived experiences of what it feels to be alienated, settling in a new country, from hearing what our parents experiences. And I feel like that makes us feel more accepting or open minded from, like experiencing in other cultures or welcoming them into your own family or your own area or your own home. That's also what I'm really proud of, I would like to think that I have pretty good self awareness about being accepting of other cultures. And I'm always curious to experience other things outside of Asian food as well because I want people to experience what our food and culture is like, as well.
Tracy
Yeah, I agree.
Wendy
So we've talked about the stereotypes that we've heard and also, I guess, the positive things of what people think about when they think Western Sydney. Let's chat about how it's changed over the years. We've touched a little bit on this and we talked about how we were portrayed in the pandemic but I feel like putting that aside, there's been probably more of a positive representation in recent times. I think back to when we saw Masterchef in Cabramatta like people in the media actually making an effort to capture, this other area within Sydney, not staying within like the more common areas. I think things like that makes us feel really proud of our area. One thing that I actually saw today was Jason Claire, who recently got sworn in as the Minister for Education for the new government, he went back to Cabrmatta Public School to visit Mrs. Fry, who was actually my year 3 teacher. He tweeted about it, he put it on his Instagram and I think, to see that in the media...he went back because he grew up he went to Cabramatta Public School as well and Mrs Fry was his year 1 teacher, but I felt a sense of like pride in that. And I feel like, that's just one example of a small gesture, or just a Minister putting aside his time to celebrate where he came from. You're just like, damn, I can see myself within him and his experiences and, you know, the media was there to portray that as well. I feel like that's a really positive representation of like, the area. Can you think of any?
Tracy
I think it's in growing time, or in times now, I think, part of the, you know, the Asian American, Asian Australian movement that's happening like that started from I don't know, like Crazy Rich Asians. I feel like, diversity in media is such a big thing now. So like you said, I feel that the representation is getting a lot more positive and it's really nice to just even see influencers that grew up in the area, making it on mainstream, like newspapers or articles and things like that as well. Or even Kevin La, SydneyFoodBoy, you know, like, making a big, not just in our area, but elsewhere as well. I think there's a bigger appetite for cultures that were once overlooked, I would say.
Wendy
Yeah, definitely. I think it goes back to that notion of like, you can't be what you can't see. So being able to see, I guess, more representation, just not across media, but you know, within your social circles or within your company itself, being able to see someone who you can relate to, or someone that you feel like is familiar, is, I think, a massive kind of shift in the direction that we're heading. And you know, aside from work, I also sometimes devote time to going back to uni to talk to people about the school that I went to the school, Canley Vale High School, and then how I ended up where I am today in the industry that I am and what opportunities helped me get there. In being able to do that, I don't do it because it's for the fame necessarily, it's moreso because I want people to know, and I want to raise the voices within that space so people know that there is space for them, if they want to create it for themselves as well.
Tracy
I feel like that kind of touches on why we started this podcast in the first place. Because it's showing people that even if you're from the area, you might be seen as disadvantaged in terms of education, access to finance, things like that. But there is like Wendy said, there is space, opportunity for us to actually make it out there.
Wendy
Yeah, yeah. And on that note about our podcasts, I think, like, there is this fear of saying the wrong thing, or not having like, the right perspective or the right, like stats or understanding of other cultures as well. And I feel like for us, we're talking about it, because we want to open the conversation up for people to be say, actually, you're wrong. Challenge us as well. And I think in us talking about it today, it hits home for us, because I feel like I haven't reflected on my Westie identity in a really long time, I think that's something that's embedded within me. But I feel like sometimes you forget to just pause and reflect on where you came from, how you grew up, you know, all the bad things you saw, but all the good things that came out of it as well. And I guess like what values or what notions your parents have drilled into you, as a result of growing up in this area, and now that you go out into the big world and start to experience like what life is beyond that, getting out of the physical bubbles, right? You're gonna face moments where there's tension between your identity versus what other people think of you, or what you want to be or feel pressure to be as well. It's a whole process and I feel like that's us in our 20s and 30s. And I think people from the area, probably feel the same as well.
Tracy
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I thought that's a really nice spot to kind of wrap up the episode. I think we've chatted a lot about why we're proud of being from South West Sydney, what it means to us and our identity. And hopefully, that allos you to reflect on that as well. Yeah. So shall we move on to our Dinner Table Questions?
Wendy
Yes, let's go!
Tracy
Alright, first question - would you want to know how the world began or how it will end?
Wendy
How the world began. Definitely, because if I knew how it ends, I'm just going to live the rest of my life and feel leading up to that moment. And I like, want to live naively a little bit.
Tracy
What if the world ending will not be in your lifetime
Wendy
Oh that's fine.
Tracy
So would you still want to know how it began?
Wendy
I think then on the flip side, if that was the condition, I would want to know how it will end because I want to know what I can do now to prevent it.
Tracy
Okayyy yeah cool.
Wendy
What about you?
Tracy
I think I really want to know how he began, just because I'm very like, curious if that makes sense. I'm kind of like, "Oh, I'm gonna be dead anyways, when the world ends. I don't really care." Not that I really care, obviously. I care. But in terms of knowledge wise, I want to know because there's so many theories that we study - like the big bang theory you have, you know, religious people who've been one thing I just, I want to settle it. I want to know.
Wendy
Yeah. What was the last item you bought?
Tracy
Excluding food? Let me think about it. What did I buy? I bought a jumper from Zara.
Wendy
Describe it.
Tracy
It was my first fast fashion purchase in the last three years since the pandemic began. Other than gym clothes because I can't thrift gym clothes.
Wendy
Yeah, that's gross.
Tracy
I ended up at Westfields one day after something. And I was just like, I need more winter clothes and I'm not near a thrift shop. So I ended up buying like a basic jumper from Zara. It was good quality and I knew I was gonna wear it for a long time.
Wendy
So it was a conscious decision. We love that. Yeah. The last item I bought was actually my plant yesterday at the Flemington flower markets. So I bought several multiple plants so we'll just talk about them collectively. But because I moved out, I've been trying to fill my space with like house plants and stuff. And now it's gotten to the stage where I officially have 15 plants, three of which I bought myself, two of which I bought yesterday. One is a Monstera classic basic, love it, easy to maintain.
Tracy
Does it have a name? Or is it going to have a name?
Wendy
Oh, no, not yet, maybe I can like crowdsource some names. But um, it was only 25 bucks, which is amazing. And I also bought like a ficus elastica which is like a rubber tree plant. So those are my more recent purchases plus I bought some fresh flowers too nice. Super classic of me, I think.
Tracy
Yes, it's very on brand for you.
Wendy
At least it wasn't like clothing item because I think who people know me...
Tracy
People would think Wendy bought shoes or clothes.
Wendy
Guys, I'm not like that anymore.
Tracy
All right, last question. What is your favourite ice cream flavour?
Wendy
Oh, hands down vanilla.
Tracy
What? Really? I didn't know that.
Wendy
Yeah, vanilla bean. Oh well okay look we're thinking about the classics. There's two ways that you can interpret this question. When you think about time Neapolitan ice cream, like you can only pick three so which one of those would be your favourite?
Tracy
Well, why is it so limited?
Wendy
I'm just creating conversation.
Tracy
I used to only eat the vanilla and strawberry and the strawberry would have been my favourite but that is not my favourite ice cream flavour, it's just out of the three.
Wendy
Okay, now thinking about like all the options in the world, what is your favourite ice cream?
Tracy
I don't actually know about I have like go tos, like matcha but I'm also a mint choc chip gal.
Wendy
Oh my god, love!
Tracy
Okay, I thought I was gonna get hate for that.
Wendy
Mint choc chip is very controversial like mint and chocolate in general is controversial but I do love mint choc chip. Okay, the the red box, what brand is it? Is it Peters? No, Bulla's maybe? It's a red box...
Tracy
I've never had any red boxes before...
Wendy
I gotta look it up. My favourite ice cream flavour, backtracking, because I love oversharing is macadamia crunch from Messina.
Tracy
Oh actually Messina mint choc, specifically, is really good because the mint actually tastes like mint. You know what I mean, it's authentically mint.
Wendy
So what about the ones from like Woolworths?
Tracy
It tastes like mint flavouring versus the herb flavour.
Wendy
You guys can't see this but Tracy is using her hands, like herrrrrrb flavour.
Tracy
I also like ice cream with little pieces in it like Hokey Pokey has little pieces.
Wendy
Oh I have Hokey Pokey in my fridge right now but I'm like struggling to finish it because it's way too sweet. But if I went to like a need as gelato I would get Cookie Man. It's a creamy ice cream flavour, I always go for creamy ice cream flavours. But it's got like cookie pieces in it, I think it's cookie dough pieces and then the drizzle chocolate on top.
Tracy
Oh, cookie dough is good too. Ben and Jerry's
Wendy
Yeah, Ben and Jerry's. I'm not about that, it's a bit too sweet. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, that was a really long-winded conversation.
Tracy
Wait, one more. The Burwood Ice Kirin ice cream.
Wendy
Yeah, shout out to Ice Kirin Bar.
Tracy
Please notice us.
Wendy
As I said, we're very delirious. But I feel like this episode was kind of like a massive discovery for me or reflection or rediscovery. Because like I said, I haven't reflected on it in a really long time. But I'm really keen to hear what other people have to say about this, like, we really crowdsource answers, but we want to open up the conversation because I'm keen to learn more. And even if you're not from Western Sydney, I'd love to hear or we'd love to hear you know, what your impression of Sydney?
Tracy
Yeah, or even I'll be interested hear like, what are you most proud of about your own suburb/area?
Wendy
And how do you tell your story? Because that's super interesting. DM us @aseatatourtable.podcast, but until the next episode, bye.