Finding Confidence in New Passions (w/Van Anh, Kind of Heart)
EPISODE 18 — 8 JULY 2022
“Imagine spending the rest of your life doing something that that you enjoyed at one point in your life. And now, I can do something different, and still be proud of the life that I’ve lived and everything that I’ve done in it.”
ABOUT THE EP
Van Anh is a part-time school teacher and part-time life coach. With immigrant parents who worked hard to restart their lives in Australia, the values of hard work and finding stability was instilled in Van Anh from a young age. This led to Van Anh's career in teaching, which eventually led to the discovery of her passion in life coaching. Through Kind of Heart, Van Anh is a second generation coach who helps Asian Australian women let go of cultural pressures and stop overworking.
THE DETAILS
Introducing Van Anh & Kind of Heart
Pursuing stability as a school teacher
From POP Pilates instructor to life coach
The impacts of being the eldest child
Greatest learnings from Kind of Heart
What is life coaching?
Building deeper relationships with parents
Resources for personal growth
-
Wendy
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast! Today we have a special guest, Van Anh Ha, who is one of my oldest family friends, actually. And we've known each other for over I would say 15 years, which is pretty massive.
Van Anh
Yeah, I haven't counted. But I think that's a long time now.
Wendy
Yeah. And our families met in, I think, a refugee camp overseas in the, I want to say the Philippines but I might be wrong.
Van Anh
Oh, thinking about this... I think it was in Hong Kong actually. Yeah. Okay. One of the I honestly don't know too much as well.
Wendy
We have Van Anh here today because you have a career as a teacher, a primary school teacher but also you have started a passion project of your own called 'Kind of Heart'. And I guess to start us off, do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself and a little bit about your background, where you grew up?
Van Anh
So if people aren't Vietnamese and don't know, my name is Van Anh. And I normally just go by Van, it's just been easier growing up. But yeah, I guess that's a point to mention. When I grew up, it was a lot of confusion about my culture and like both sides really, like the Vietnamese and Chinese - the Asian side and then the Western like Australian side. Even though...you guys can verify this as well...but growing up in this community, where most people are predominantly Asian, it has been a lot easier to, you know, go out and interact with people. But at the same time going to uni and seeing the shock of different cultures and just interacting with people from a completely different background, it's been a lot. But yeah, my parents came here. So they met your parents in Hong Kong, I guess they've been refugees after the Vietnam War. At some point,I don't know how long they spent in refugee camps, but it was quite a couple of years. They came to the Philippines where I was born and then they came over to Australia and that was when I was about like, three or four months. So my background is like Vietnamese, Chinese. Yeah, pretty much, mostly Vietnamese.
Tracy
And can you tell us a little bit about Kind of Heart? Just an overview, we're going to ask more questions later but to frame up what it is that you do, I guess, you know, nine to five, and then outside of that, as well.
Van Anh
So yeah, nine to five will come into later, but I'm a primary school teacher and knowing that that's very common job, and it links into Kind of Heart as well, It's something different that I wanted to do for myself. That was the whole point of it, because I focus mostly on the experiences of second generation immigrants, and specifically women, because that's my experiences, personally, as well. I think it started off as like not knowing what I was going to do with it. I just thought of that name and I loved it, because it's like, kind of had double meaning and I had no idea where it was going. It started off as Pilates, and something separate from work. And then I was like, hey, I can do something else with this so when I found out about life coaching, which is what I'm doing now with that, it's life coaching with a focus on a specific niche, which is second gen women and our experiences with cultural pressure and overworking. And I actually just received my certification yesterday in life coaching.
Tracy
Congratulations!
Van Anh
Yay, it has been like a year, over a year in the making.
Tracy
Can you tell us about how growing up your childhood, how that impacted your decision to go into life coaching?
Van Anh
There's a lot but I guess like the short version is when I grew up, everything I did was... it was kind of for me, but for this like far off version of me that I had no idea about, like this person who had a nice family, had a nice house, had a good job - that was the basis of everything I did, for that future, far, far ahead of me and I kind of just felt bored of that. I was questioning everything and this was the time, like a couple years ago, and I haven't been working as a teacher for that long. This is only my seventh year but a couple years ago, I was questioning and doubting that, like did I really want to be a teacher anymore? Like, don't get me wrong, I love being a teacher, I love like working with kids and like making an impact in that way but I think I wanted something different. And the reason I went into teaching was, because, well, a lot of factors. But it was the expectation on myself that I wanted something, you know, like a stable career, I wanted money coming in regularly and as a teacher, you know, it's very stable, there's always going to be kids and schools always need teachers. Like, whatever role you are in as a casual, or like full time, there's always something out there. And so I stayed in there, because I'm like, why would I want to change? I'm satisfied, I guess, with that, but it wasn't something that I was imagining myself doing for the rest of my life, which at the time, when I chose that, I was thinking, this was it. Like I had to choose one thing and stick with that for the rest of my life. And now looking back, I'm like, oh, you don't need to do that. We have so long considering we live like up to like 80 something years old. Imagine spending the rest of your life doing something that that you enjoyed at one point in your life. And now it's kind of like, I can do something different, and still be proud of the life that I've lived and everything that I've done in it.
Wendy
Yeah, I think something to call out is like teaching or becoming a teacher, it's actually something that I think is quite common in terms of career pathways for a lot of Asian Australians - well, within our friendship group anyway. I know there's a couple of people who are teachers, do you feel like how you grew up and the values that your parents instilled in you was the reason why you wanted to choose like a stable career? And something that was a constant?
Van Anh
Yeah, definitely. You know, as a child from immigrant parents, education was huge and you guys are nodding as well. They valued education, even if they didn't want us to be like, you know, 99.9% ATAR, or whatever it is. Everything we did was for our education for who we're going to be in the future. Like, you know, going tutoring. Did you guys go tutoring as well?
Tracy
Yes, since year 1.
Van Anh
Yeah I think you mentioned on the previous episode.
Tracy
Yeah, I think it's insane, thinking about it now, so many years in tutoring.
Van Anh
Yeah, tutoring, going to Vietnamese and Chinese school....
Wendy
Yeah. 100%. Do you face any challenges as an Asian Australian in the teaching industry?
Van Anh
Yeah. I mean, not huge, because I think Australia is quite accepting of different cultures. And I think in teaching, particularly, it's very open, like people are very willing to help each other. We're in the service sector where people... I just love helping so not too much. But I guess, in the way that like, it was my competence as a teacher, because clearly our parents valued education a lot. And so teaching was kind of like, we've all been to school, we all know a bit about it, we probably have a favourite teacher, and we're like, oh, I want to be a teacher, just like them. And with teaching, I think the biggest thing for me was having the confidence to speak up during like meetings and sharing your opinions. And you've mentioned in previous episodes about, like, in the creative industry as well, which is very different. But in teaching it's like when you when you have to teach English, when English isn't your first language. But it was probably just in my head, I'm teaching primary school, which is easier.
Tracy
Do you feel imposter syndrome in that case?
Van Anh
Yeah! Like, everything I did was kind of, like winging it a little bit.
Tracy
How did you overcome that? Or have you overcome that? Like, are there tactics that you developed over the years to overcome that?
Van Anh
One of the biggest things is probably over-planning.
Tracy
Preparation is key.
Van Anh
Yes! So I would pre-plan everything, not to like the extent of having all my questions planned out and everything, but like having all my resources prepared, thinking of it and preparing the main objectives of the lesson. All that in advance, and I would like do it on the Sunday, prepare the whole week, so that everything kind of flows together and builds on what they've learned.
Tracy
When did your realisation came that you wanted to do something more than teaching? Was there a pivotal moment?
Van Anh
Yeah. At the time, I didn't realise it but I think in 2020, before that, I was going to the gym, and doing my own thing, not thinking about work, really, that was kind of like my escape from work. And after a couple of years, going to the gym, I was like, I want to do something different. Like I love the gym, and I love like lifting weights and feeling strong but at the same time, I wanted to do something slow, something different and that's when I started doing like, online YouTube videos. Like those are easy, and you can do it at home and so I wanted to become like, I don't know if you guys know Blogilates on YouTube.
Wendy
Yeah, yeah.
Van Anh
Well, she had this like Pilates instructor course and she taught like pop Pilates which was sounds so fun. I was like dancing on the mat, like Pilates and, you know, high energy, but also kind of best of both worlds high energy, but it could also be slower, focused on like flexibility.
Tracy
I think Wendy and I did one of her challenges in high school.
Van Anh
Which challenge did you do?
Tracy
I can't ever remember, it was like a 30 day ab challenge or something.
Wendy
Something like that. I didn't think it lasted not even three days.
Van Anh
Her challenges were intense, like she is a very high energy person.
Wendy
Yeah, she is.
Van Anh
Yeah. And so when I did Pilates, when I was doing some of her YouTube videos, I really enjoyed some of the slower paced ones. And I saw a sale for becoming a pop pilates instructor so that was the beginning of it all. I was like, Okay, I'll do something different. I'll try this out, do it on the side, like, I'm not going to become like a full time fitness instructor or, like, teach at the gym or anything. But I was wanting to do something different and that was kind of like, I want to work out with my friends, I want to do something outside of work. And so that's when I started doing that and I started teaching online like during, during COVID. That was fun. And I was thinking about different ways that I could make money, I guess, rather than just working and grinding, like nine to five, it wasn't really a nine to five, as you know, with a lot of jobs. I came to school early and I sometimes stayed later, which I was really good at last few years and then I brought work home and did work on the weekend. So I was literally like at work every single day and I was like no, I can't do this for the rest of my life. I'm young now but I can't do this. And when I'm like 30 something like I really admire those teachers just with kids - how do you do that?
Tracy
Yeah. Especially being a teacher, I feel like the work never ends. Like your weekends, you're marking work, your preparing lessons, it's a lot of work.
Wendy
Yeah. Do you think...Well, for our listeners, Van Anh is the eldest child in the family with two younger siblings. Do you feel like being the eldest in your family brought about some of that work ethic or that mindset?
Van Anh
Yeah, I think it has. I've talked to some friends who are not the oldest and they might say it's complete opposite for them. And I know you guys are different as well so you guys can chime in. But I think the good thing was that I was exposed to a lot of my culture because being the first one, I spoke the home language, I learned a lot of things about my parents, you know about the family and all that. But it also came with, well, most of these are good, but they also have a bad side to it. Like I was very independent and being a teacher, being a leader in the classroom, was kind of partly because of that because I had to figure everything out by myself. I wanted to help others and because I was independent, I kind of did everything by myself. And then I figured out how to do life admin stuff and go through uni, more of a like a problem solver and how to organise things for myself in a system that works for me. But with that, it was kind of it became kind of like a negative thing when you become the go-to for everything and with teaching, it is the same where you know, if you're really good at something, everyone comes to you to ask for help, which is not a bad thing, I love to help people. But that also came with my like lack of boundaries, because I'm like I'm supposed to help people. If people are willing to ask me for help then I need to help them. And that's the thing with teaching, it's like I'm always helping the kids. And with being the responsible one, at home, at school and everything, I kind of put this box around myself to do things a certain way, and how others would perceive me if I didn't do that. So that was one of the hardest things I had to overcome. In the last few years, it's just, you know, don't care about what other people think. Well, at the same time, you kind of do, but I don't think I can ever let that go personally. Yeah, because it's just how people get to know you. They see that side of you or they know things about you, you know, like just seeing the way you talk or the way you, you do certain things, it's their way of getting to know you better.
Tracy
Yeah. Yeah. But it's like also reminding yourself that you need to feel your own glass before you fill other people's as well. How did you pivot from doing pilates to life coaching?
Van Anh
Yeah, this was like, before I moved schools actually. I found out about life coaching online, I was following someone on YouTube, who was like a health coach so that got me into the world of life coaching and just coaching in general, but then life coaching is a little bit different to that. And I just went down this deep rabbit hole about life coaching, because I want to know everything about it, it really opened my eyes to other ways of working. And I know like, you know, having your own business or having a side hustle, whatever, you know, all those things require a lot of time and energy. And I was like, Okay, we're gonna do that, because I'm working full time, how would I have time to do anything else? That's always the problem of like, I'm working so I can't do this but I can't do that because I'm, like, I don't have the energy and the time to. So I moved schools, and I thought it'd be easier to now I work more locally and the demographics of the kids are very different and the atmosphere of the school was very different too, I thought that would help. And you know, listening to your previous episode, which I'm not sure by the time this airs, but the episode you did with Cereal For Lunch, they were mentioning about how you change your job or a job becomes a little easier but you still don't want to do it and I was like, oh, yeah, that's exactly what I went through. Because work was little bit easier, I went to school early still, but I left early as well. But then I still was kind of like, No, I want to do something different still and I didn't feel like it was right, being at school. So then I worked there for like a year and I was like, okay, maybe I'll come back to the life coaching thing because it kept popping up. And you know, when you like, when you keep seeing something, it just, yeah, it was in the back on my mind all the time. So I kind of looked into a bit more, thinking a bit more seriously about this time. And I found this course, this program, it was a lifetime program, which is why it took me so long to do my certification because I was working as well and I was thinking I just have in my back pocket for whenever I want to do it because I came back to it twice. I wanted to do it at some point, I really wasn't thinking it was gonna be so soon, that's all. And so I was getting into that a little bit more and going into like the videos and just talking to people in the community, who also enrolled in the program too, and it just really opened my eyes to all that. I was like, Okay, I'll take it more seriously, I'll do something about it. I decided from like term one of school, which was very early on the year, like at my new school, towards the end of term one, probably beginning of term two, I was thinking alright, I'm gonna go casual next year, and take it more seriously. So that's what happened, I worked the rest of the year with my class was like it was a beautiful year two class and I still miss them but because I need to do something else, I'm not gonna be gone completely from school, I don't think I can ever quit work completely and just do something different. I now work two days at school and then I work on my life coaching, Kind of Heart, for three, well the rest of the week, basically.
Wendy
That's a massive step because I think you were talking about stability at the beginning and that kind of is like the opposite of stability. It just seems like that was a very, very pivotal moment because it takes a lot of courage and confidence within yourself to be able to do that. So with Kind of Heart, now that you're committing so much time to it, what messages or what themes are you trying to communicate through it?
Van Anh
So I think the main, I mean, it's changed so much and evolved over the years, is just thinking what I wanted to do, because it started off with life coaching, I do my certification and then it became like a focus on like work-life balance, because that's what I was going through at the moment, at the time, and then I hired a coach for myself and she really helped me get this out of my brain. It was like, I had all these ideas or these pieces of the puzzle and she was like, Okay, let's connect all these dots and put everything together and that's what I'm focusing on now. My focus is helping people, specifically second gen women, to live their life with intention. We're focusing on like, goals and these external outcomes of success or like, wealth, or whatever it is, that we are kind of always like, go, go, go. I don't know if you guys go through that as well but it was a lot of my life, like I worked so much, I went straight from school to uni to work full time. Like, you guys, at least went overseas for uni, I didn't do that and then I was working part time as well. At some points, I was working like crazy hours, like about 60 hours a week, like school and then tutoring part-time so it was really full on. And the thing was, I was really proud of that. I was like, Oh, I'm gonna be successful one day, because I'm working so hard now. Like, all these efforts gonna come to fruition in the end and, you know, it just lead to burnout.
Tracy
Yeah. Is that the voice of your parents? I feel like if you work hard, that's success.
Van Anh
Yeah, even though they didn't push me to work that hard, but like, oh, work now, while you can, you're still young, you got the energy, you should work. And so, you know, they were like, okay, you can save up money, you buy a house, have a family, like, that's the formula for success and now you're like questioning all that. Because with the Western culture, it's kind of like, do what you want, do what makes you happy. So I was torn between the two, I was like, I should be looking forward to the future to my family, and you know, all that stuff and also felt bad for leaving my job, because I can't financially support my family if I don't have money right now. But then, you know, you need to figure things out as you go along. If I have to go back to, to work at school, like more, more days, I will. There's more flexibility and I think I've let go of a lot of that expectation on myself to do things a certain way. If there's a problem, I'll fix it, you know, like, I'm a problem solver. I'm independent.
Wendy
With the people that you've helped through Kind of Heart, what are some of the things that you commonly see as like, themes or issues?
Van Anh
Yeah, I think it's a lot of things that I share on Instagram and a lot of my content does come from is inspired by my experiences and the experiences of other people that I've talked to as well. So I mean, with my niche, I only attract those people who really relate to what I'm talking about and so it's very similar struggles and experiences. Of course, every family is really unique and everybody goes through different challenges. But overall, it's kind of the same things, like high expectations passed down to you from like other people, which is not a bad thing because they're hoping for a better life for you and they just want like, all the good things for you. But at the same time, how to filter through that, and how to take in what they're saying and apply it to your life and your values and then doing something with that.
Tracy
So for those who don't know, what is life coaching? Like how do you use life coaching to help those people get overcome those issues?
Van Anh
So through my certification, there was a written assessment, which was all about this. But some of the questions were like, "What's the difference between life coaching and like counselling and therapy, all those things?" So, life coaching is a bit different in that way, because it's not like...therapists, you might have to study in uni or get like some sort of licence or degree or something. Life coaching, you don't actually need one, which sometimes, you know, people can feel a bit like unsure about that, not sure if they have the right qualifications and the right experience to help you but it's more of, I would say empowering people to solve problems by themselves. So find that inner wisdom, that inner strength to overcome their own challenges. Because I think a lot of the problems that I've encountered with people that you know, from school, from myself as a student, is that sometimes we like being spoon fed like, it's just easier, give me the answers. Like, that's how our parents worked, right? Their schooling was probably like that as well, where they sat in the classroom and was just talked at for the whole day. Whereas now, like with life coaching, I'm empowering people with the skills, the knowledge, the strategies to do that themselves. It's kind of getting them to the point where they can self coach, and they don't have to rely on someone else. Like sometimes it's, of course, it's amazing to have someone outside, you know, some external, unbiased views, helping you and I would not regret any of the support that I've had. It's just sometimes you need to find that strength within yourself because that provides confidence that helps you overcome things that sometimes, you don't want other people to know about. Yeah, so life coaching is different that way, I guess. It's kind of like similar to school where we don't want to just give kids the answers like these days, it's all about flexible learning and lettings kids explore, and they test things out, and then they come up with solution. So it's kind of the same thing, I'm that sounding board for somebody else to voice what they're thinking, what they're saying, sometimes things come out that you don't even expect.
Tracy
And sometimes you need someone there to like, express it. Otherwise, if you're by yourself, I feel like you might not reach the same conclusion.
Van Anh
Exactly, really like with my own, like with Kind of Heart now, if I had done it completely by myself the whole time, I would not be where I am now. And I've only started coaching for like six months. Literally, like this week is the final week with my coach, before I do something on my own or move onto something different. But without her, I wouldn't even have to figured out my niche. I wouldn't even have a podcast right now as well, or like do anything on Instagram. I'll probably be too afraid to, like put my face out there. It's motivation, an accountability to do something that you probably wouldn't have done yourself.
Tracy
Yeah. What have your greatest learnings been with doing Kind of Heart?
Van Anh
Yeah, linking back to what I just said, the biggest thing is putting myself out there because I don't know if you remember much of me when I was younger, because you were quite young as well. But as a kid, I was really shy, really quiet, even in school, I was like the student who never spoke and I've had to come out of my shell a lot. From uni, I was like, I better work on this, because I can't live the rest of my life like that. It was partially because of my competence and also, because I was like, people don't need to get to know me, as long as I work hard. I'll be fine. And, yeah, so I kind of did a lot with that and over the last few years, I've done a lot of work on myself. Like starting anything new, you need so much time, so much energy to put into yourself. Because that's when all the fears come out. Like me starting Instagram, and just taking a photo of myself, I'm like, Oh, I'm not really a person take selfies or, like I like taking pictures of other people, and then talk on camera, and I had to watch myself back, and I was like, Oh, I hate it. I think I probably edited captions, like re-edited, and then double check for typos and everything at the beginning, that was so hard. But I'm so glad I went through that same time, because it's taught me so much. AndI think that was a confidence thing, it was a lot of people pleasing, having other people compare you and judge you. That was a lot of the under the surface stuff that came up.
Wendy
Yeah, I feel like there's been a shift in say your life in terms of like, as eldest child focusing on being independent, but also being there for your parents and now kind of shifting the focus on yourself. And I feel like I've kind of come to that in my mid 20s, where I'm like, you know what, you spend your whole life kind of thinking about your parents and what you can do for them but there comes a certain point where you need to start to think about like yourself and what you want. And I feel like at the beginning it was like with a lot of guilt when I started to do that but then now realising like, this is my life and you know, I'm going to be here for the next like 60 or 70 years, so might as well make it enjoyable.
Van Anh
Yeah, the thing is, our parents are proud of us no matter what. We have this one vision of what our life should look like and we follow that. And they were saying, you should get a good job, you should be a doctor or lawyer, even though none of us are in those professions at all.
Wendy
Yeah. You share a lot about your experiences with your parents on Kind of Heart. Do they know what you do with this? How do you explain it to them?
Van Anh
You know, teaching is so easy, and people will ask you what you do. I was even talking to a friend about this last night, where she was like, oh, what does Raymond do now? I'm like, uhhhh... but when I say teaching, it's so easy, everyone gets it. But with life coaching, because it's so new, it's more like of a new thing that's come up in the past few years, or it's been like growing. And some of the biggest things that came up were, like, mostly because my Mum knows.... because my parents are divorced, so mostly talk to my Mum, and she kind of understands. So recently we went on a trip to like a tiny house, and that was when you had nothing else to do except talk to each other. And we were literally, like, within a metre of each other at all times but that's when we had, like, the deepest conversations that I've ever had with my Mum before. And you know, like, yeah, it just the communication with us, it's so hard because I don't know how to say coaching, especially like life coaching in Vietnamese. I had to Google Translate and she was like, Oh, okay and I told her, like, what I wanted to do and why I was doing it. She was like, oh...Because she's seen me, you know, like working over the past like six years, seven years so she understands why I'm doing it. But I guess there's always that uncertainty of like, what's going to happen, am I going to make enough money? Are you gonna be able to sustain yourself? Like, all that kind of stuff. So I think she does understand. She's part of my like Facebook group, which is really supportive. At the same time. I'm like, do you even know what I'm doing on there? Because she doesn't quite understand English, she's not that great. Yeah, so she doesn't really know and even today, like before our call, she called me on the phone. And I was like, Oh, I have an interview with Wendy soon. And she was like, Wendy? Like Wendy Sna? And I was like yeah, that one!
Wendy
Yeah it's so relatable in the sense that like, even my parents today don't really understand what I do for work, like they just know it's in the design space. But I feel like even you, just involving your Mum in the process is like a step forward. Because I feel like everything that I do, I just keep it hidden from my parents. I just feel like there's no point in telling them because I just assumed they will never understand.
Van Anh
Just give them the basics. Yeah, like I did this today then they're like ok, let's have dinner now.
Tracy
You never really get a chance to really go deeper. So it's really interesting that you spent so much time with your Mum solo, and we were to have those deep conversations.
Van Anh
Well my sister was there, too. Yeah, she was kind of whispering in our conversation. But yeah, I've been trying to grow that relationship with my family, just in different ways. And that's why I like being vulnerable. It has been... just putting myself online, I was mostly worried about the people that knew me. I didn't care about the people who didn't know me, I'm like, they don't know me anyway. Whereas like, your friends who follow you on Instagram, and suddenly see this huge change, they're like, "What? What's gone into her?"
Tracy
It's the fear of judgement, right? Because they know you. You mentioned that you mentioned that you've been trying to work with your relationship with your your mother...do you have any tips or you know, what have you been doing?
Van Anh
Okay, well, talking to her more, now that I don't live at home. It's actually really hard, because I was like, I'm gonna see her so often... and it kind of fizzled out. But I've been trying to just connect to my culture, because then I can discuss that with them like even asking them questions like, Oh, how did you come up with my name? Because it's not like an English name. Yeah, and I've been learning my home languages like Chinese and Vietnamese on Duolingo. But I've been keeping it up for this is like two years now, like 784 days, I think that's a huge achievement for me, because I'm like, that's a small thing, literally I could do five minutes or less a day, but I've been getting consistent practice with it, because I don't always hear Chinese. Whereas like French is even harder, right? Because like your family don't speak French?
Wendy
Yeah, exactly. But it's so important for communication, right? Just language in general, like, I think because I've moved out, I'm probably even worse now. I struggle to remember words when I'm trying to talk to my parents, and they just get frustrated because they're like, Oh, you're just speaking in bits and pieces, then they just get frustrated. So the fact that like you're putting in the effort to learn, I feel like is, it seems like a very small part in like the personal growth journey overall but I feel like it contributes to a bigger picture, which is like getting to know your Mum or your family again, in a way, even though these are people that you grew up with, right? And I find it particularly interesting that you're in the life coaching space where you're teaching other people, but you're also on this, like, endless journey yourself.
Van Anh
I am a teacher after all but I'm a lifelong learner.
Tracy
Speaking on that, like personal growth and journey, were there any resources, or anything that has helped you with your personal journey that you'd recommend to others?
Van Anh
So many, I can't quite remember all of them. But once you once you get into this space, and kind of start to learn more about people... I guess the standout ones, Marie Forleo. For me, have you heard of her?
Wendy
No, I haven't.
Van Anh
If you're not in this space, you wouldn't really hear these names, I guess. She has a book called 'Everything is figureoutable'. That was one of my it's a such an easy read, the way she writes it and I think it just really helped with putting everything in perspective. Because sometimes you get stuck in a problem or situation. You're like, hey, how do I even do anything about this? Because emotionally, you're so invested, that you'd get so frustrated, you're like, not doing that anymore. But she kind of talks you through that everything is figureoutable, you just got to get out of that headspace. And another one is Jenna Kutcher, also in a similar space, but she does like educational resources for like businesses, she has a book coming out soon. But she's focused kind of like both... kind of similar to me...the well being and the work-life balance kind of thing, she's never believed possible. But she has a book coming out called 'How Are You Really?' And I can't wait to read that, it's not out yet, but it's something I'm excited to read. But there's this book that I think will be helpful for you guys as well, if you want to dive more into like, mental health, more from like an Asian perspective. It's Dr. Jenny Wang and her Instagram is called 'Asians for Mental Health', I think I'm getting that right. She has a book called Permission to Come Home and I haven't quite finished it because I actually want to be focused when I'm reading. I can't read it before bed but she comes from the same, like a similar background, and she has her own experiences, but she brings in her side of... I think she's a therapist or psychologist or something like that, so she brings that expertise in as well. That has been really helpful just to, like, confirm what I've been talking about. It's not just like me making making stuff up. It's actually, like, verified by somebody else. So I guess like, yeah, she's one of the biggest ones in this space that I've really come to admire.
Hmm, I feel like this actually... thinking about it now there's not a lot of Asian Australians or Asian Americans talking much about this. I guess the traumas or the things that have been drilled into us and how they impact us as like young adults now. Because I feel like you're almost like, unlearning everything that you've ever been told and you're like learning new habits that benefit you and no one else, in a way.
And I love that you said unlearning, because that's one of the focuses of my...if in the future when I have like a longer programme, it is working on unlearning some things like the things that aren't helping you right now and then relearning things that will be more beneficial or different ways of thinking that weren't like ingrained in us when we were kids.
Tracy
Yeah, well on that, are there any things that you have been actively trying to unlearn?
Van Anh
All the things that I talk about on my Instagram? Mostly the biggest thing is expectations on myself, like I don't need to be this perfect person. Like, clearly I'm not, but not kidding myself anymore about that. But a lot of that is slowly like working on a way out of it. Yeah, I'm learning the fact that no one has said that I have to be really good at speaking Vietnamese, like I just want to be, it's just that I'm placing that expectation on myself. No one has said I need to do something a certain way. Like, for me, it was something little the other day, no one said that I have to, like clean the house before I leave. Like, before I go to work, I like things being tidy and when I come back, I come back and relax, you know. No one expects me to do that but things that you expect from yourself, because you know, you're your own worst critic, and then you judge yourself all the time. And of course, we want to be better people, we want to, you want to grow, want to evolve, but there are ways that we can do that, that doesn't require like sacrificing our like, mental health.
Wendy
So what's next on the table for you and Kind of Heart? Are there any kind of big goals now that you have your certification?
Van Anh
Nothing really changes actually, with my certification, but I guess like, people don't have to be worried that, like, I haven't done any training or haven't gone through any practice sessions with people, like I have done that before. But the biggest thing is, I guess now I'm focusing on, like two big things, my podcas (same as you guys), I'm growing, to learn how to do things. And what I'm working on next is having some in-person events. Like I've hosted one virtual event, but the way I love to work is like seeing people in-person, like feeding into their energy and just getting to know people on a deeper level, like face-to=face rather than online. You know, my biggest goal is to host retreats so that's overseas or around Australia, wherever. Like a nice island, like Bali, that'll be perfect, one day! Yeah, it's just get to know people, chat, eat some good food, exercise. But most importantly, it's just talk about things that aren't brought up on a daily basis because I feel like some of my closest friends probably don't know me, as well as I hope they would.
Wendy
Yeah I feel like it's all about being in a space where you can be vulnerable and know that everyone else is doing the same thing so it feels like a safe space to do that. Because it's really hard to talk about these things because it's quite confronting. I feel like in Asian culture anyway, it's like sweep it under the rug, you'll be fine, just survive, right. But I think you're doing such amazing things in terms of building a community where people can be open and vulnerable so props to you.
Van Anh
Lots of exciting things coming up.
Wendy
Yeah, cool. So we're jumping to our favourite segment of our podcasts, which is Dinner Table Questions. So you may have known from our previous episodes that we have three questions to ask and it can be like rapid fire answers. The first question is, if you didn't pursue a career in teaching, what would you have liked to study or do apart from life coaching?
Van Anh
Rapid fire.... I think I was just so unsure about this, you know, when deciding my jobs, but I was thinking like, either a dietitian or a naturopath somewhere along the health side, just because, if you guys didn't know, I'm a vegan. And I was vegetarian for a long time before that but now I'm vegan and I'm just interested in like, where do I get nutrients from? And how can I effectively just function?
Tracy
Awesome. The next question, what's something about yourself that always always surprises people? Like a fun fact or secret talent, your party trick?
Van Anh
I don't think I'm gonna whip this out. But I guess I was thinking like something. I don't, I don't just whip it out so I'm not sure if anyone knows this, but I can lick my nose, maybe off camera.
Wendy
Last question is, if you could give advice to your younger self, what would it be?
Van Anh
I think the most simplest thing would be to go with the flow. Because I was like, so strict on planning everything out, organisation...and when something went wrong, I was like, Oh, crap. So I think go with the flow, things happen for a reason - either, it's a lesson or something goes well, like, nothing goes wrong.
Tracy
You're so much wiser in in hindsight, you know?
Van Anh
Yeah, you have to go through it yourself.
Wendy
Well, that wraps up the episode. Thank you so much for coming on and chatting to us. I feel like I learned so much about myself and about the world of life coaching, but also just teaching in general. Like I said before, I have so many friends that are teachers, but I never asked them what it's like so it's been great to hear your experiences. For our listeners, we will throw everything into the show notes, including the resources that you chatted through as well and links to Van Anh's socials.
Van Anh
Thank you for having me!
Tracy
Thank you. Bye bye