Making Art for Mental Health (w/ Ilin Ho, Artists’ Apparel)
EPISODE 23 — 8 OCTOBER 2022
“I couldn’t get over the fact that I didn’t have good enough grades to become a doctor. Being an artist just didn’t feel like it was enough to contribute to the world. Since then, I’ve been able to meet an incredible amount of influences around me that changed my point of view on art and how it can influence people but in a different sense, in a more emotional and aesthetic approach, which is something I never grew up thinking was possible.”
ABOUT THE EP
Ilin Ho is a multidisciplinary artist who explores the reinvention of old materials and the founder of Artists' Apparel. Artists' Apparel opens the opportunity for more conversations surrounding mental health as many designs were created with a focus on depression and anxiety. We chat to Ilin about her personal experiences with mental health and art, her 'failures' and lessons leading up to Artists' Apparel, and her creative process as artist and small business owner.
THE DETAILS
Ilin's journey to becoming an artist and starting Artists' Apparel
Ilin's personal experiences and evolving relationship with mental health
Behind the scenes of running Artists' Apparel
Lessons learnt and looking towards a sustainable future
FOLLOW ARTISTS’ APPAREL
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artists_apparel/
- Website: https://artistsapparel.com/
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Tracy
Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. Today we have a very, very special guest, Ilin Ho. She's an artist who explores the reinvention of old materials by layering ideas around sustainability and waste. She founded Artists' Apparel in 2021 and since its launch, it continues to inspire individuals to support ethical and slow fashion production. Welcome, Ilin.
Ilin
Thank you for that wonderful introduction. Thank you for having me.
Tracy
Thank you for you know, sitting with us. Thank you for joining our podcast. We can't wait to kind of hear more about your story. Can you start off with telling us about yourself, you know, briefly introduce who you are, where you grew up, your cultural background?
Ilin
Yeah. So As Tracy mentioned, my name is Ilin. I was born in Australia, in a very sunny city called the Gold Coast. And then around 2015, I moved to Melbourne to kind of explore my arts and kind of cultural desires and kind of interests. It didn't take off in terms of my creative interests until probably around after maybe six or seven years after moving to Melbourne. But yeah, I come from a family of Taiwanese and Hong Kong descents. And that's kind of me in a nutshell.
Wendy
Do you speak Cantonese at home?
Ilin
I do not. I can speak Mandarin, but Cantonese.
Wendy
I asked because I speak Cantonese. So it's always it's always nice finding other people who speak Cantonese.
Ilin
I get that question a lot.
Wendy
I'm curious to know, why Melbourne since you grew up in Gold Coast. Did you move to Melbourne for like a very specific reason?
Ilin
Yeah, that's a good question. I honestly the time, I had a lot of things to kind of escape from. The Gold Coast was very different back then to the way that it's developed now. And I think in a way, it was kind of my justification of moving to the Australian version of New York without actually having the funds to move to the actual New York because I think I moved to with only probably like, $1,500. And I had no job lined up before I moved here, and yeah, I just kind of needed to get out.
Wendy
That's super brave.
Tracy
And then you talked about kind of you pursuing art and it taking, what did you say, six or seven years for it to kind of kick off? So what was the journey there? How did you get into art? Why did you decide to pursue it and what was your journey like?
Ilin
Yeah, well, so I have been doing art in the general sphere since I was a little kid ever since I can remember. And I used to do a lot of different craft projects, anything from jewellery, to painting to sculpturing, to handsewing, to beadwork, and then I think around actually around, maybe beginning of high school, I stopped. I didn't have a lot of influences around me, that kind of showed me that a creative path was possible so kind of drilled in to all the science and math subjects. I did not graduate with a high school certificate because I failed almost every class. And then I kind of just decided, I just, I think I did try to dip my toes back into creativity by studying digital media, but didn't quite work out. And then I think I just kind of winged it in life, just been working low income jobs, in hospitality, and ended up doing odd jobs here and there. Just to try to find myself in a way. You know, being in Melbourne really helped that journey. And there were moments where I could have kind of pursued something creative, but I always kind of got shut down by my imposter syndrome and my subconscious. And yeah, it kind of leads me to last year where I kind of had my final straw of all the jobs that I worked in the years prior. And I got, I ended up getting fired from my last job, which was kind of like a call centre job, but for the medical field, and I got fired not because of any COVID related reason, but purely because I was just really bad. Or just I lacked a lot of passion. And yes, yeah, I just had to funnel my rage into something finally into something creative. And that's kind of how Artists' Apparel was born.
Wendy
What an incredible story. I just feel like, not a lot of people would be so honest and vulnerable and sharing your story. So thank you so much for sharing that with us. I think we can resonate a lot with what you were saying about not having examples of people in the industry, or examples of how we can get into the industry. And I think your journey to creating Artists' Apparel is a really unique one. I know Tracy provided a little bit of an introduction, but do you want to tell us what Artists' Apparel is all about, and how you started that.
Ilin
100%. So you already know a bit of the beginning of how it started. I essentially got an idea, I think at that time either it was from Pinterest or somewhere and in social media, to hand paint jeans. So that's kind of how I started. I just saw these second secondhand jeans from op shops and then I started to learn about fabric paint, I started to learn about different techniques, and I just started painting on these jeans that I had no kind of direction or no kind of intention behind them other than to see if I could sell. And slowly but surely, I kind of tapped into realising that a lot of the art that I make naturally comes back to mental health. Because I've got lived experiences of depression and anxiety. And I know a lot of people in just the broader community struggle with mental health. So it was a way for me to kind of start something not only that was on my own, but could also give back or spread a message. So the fundamental core value of Artists' Apparel is to create awareness, but also start healthy conversations around mental health because especially in minority communities, such as the Asian community, it can be quite stigmatised and it can be kind of unheard of. There are a lot of countries out there that don't really acknowledge that mental health is existence or even something to be treated like a physical illness and it was really important for me to kind of give back as well. So 20% of all profits that I make with Artists' Apparel all goes back into mental health organisations. So some of the mental health organisations that I've supported so far, are ones in Australia such as Beyond Blue and Headspace Australia, and I try to continue to support as many mental health organisations in a little bit of a disorganised way.
Tracy
Yeah. I remember following you I feel like when you maybe just first started doing it, and it's so like, so nice to see how I feel like Artists' Apparel has really picked up in the last like, year, month or whatever since I started following you. And it's so cool to see. I feel like when I first saw you, I remember like, the statements you were making through your pieces. It's like opening up the conversation about mental health. And it's almost like putting things that people think about but never talk about, in clothing, where people can be loud and proud about and open conversations about it. And I think it's really really cool. Since starting Artists' Apparel, has it opened up more conversations with you personally and other people around mental health, and how has it changed your relationship with the topic?
Ilin
So I started doing markets in the last few months. And I found that through doing the markets, I've been able to meet some really, really interesting people. For instance, last week, I was able to meet a counsellor, so the counsellor, when they came to kind of look at my clothing, they had this kind of instant resonance to the clothing and the messages that the clothing had on them. And it just started a whole conversation about what it's like to be for her as a counsellor, and kind of the message that she kind of wants to share. I also have a friend that has purchased from me in the past. And that friend works as a art teacher for high school. And it's kind of like the small things that make a difference. Just having even that friend say, Hey, I'm gonna wear this shirt of yours on RUOK Day, to kind of spread awareness to the children. I think that in itself is very subtle but yeah, it means a lot. And just having those kinds of small little interruptions, I think during the day as well, to make people's think, kind of really check in with themselves as well.
Tracy
Yeah, that's really cool. What your friend is doing, especially I feel like in high school, mental health is such a big topic that people might not talk about, but struggle with. So it's really cool to, you know, have a forum where she's able to kind of start the conversation with students as well.
Wendy
Yeah, I feel like you, when you were talking about your story, you expressing that you really liked, you know, art growing up and throughout your entire childhood. And now that you've created Artists' Apparel, it's almost like you're pursuing art, but with a different purpose. How has this changed, I guess your perspective on pursuing a career in art?
Ilin
So I kind of always believe and jumping head first into whatever opportunities are given to you. And I know not everyone has that kind of learning style. But for me, personally, I've been able to grow as an individual by doing a lot of things that would make me uncomfortable. So I definitely knew from a young age as well, I didn't love the idea of being a nine to five worker, or yeah, just being someone else's employee. And that was something that was developed, probably around my late teens, or was quite noticeable in my late teens, when finances became something important to survival, or even just leisure. And I will say, Artists' Apparel probably is not the first business I've run. I think I've done about six to seven side hustles, and I think a lot of these businesses, even though I wasn't really passionate about or didn't last, I definitely built a lot of skill sets, a lot of tenacity, a work ethic from those side hustles slash businesses that I created. Naturally, I've always kind of had this inner urge in me to help people. I think a lot of people grew up that way, they have kind of a mission to help people in life. And for some reason, I couldn't get over the fact that I didn't have good enough grades to become a doctor. And being an artist just wasn't, for some reason, my mind, just didn't feel like it was enough to contribute to the world. Since then, I've been able to meet an incredible amount of friends and influences around me that did kind of change my point of view on art and how it can influence people but in a different sense, in a more emotional and aesthetic approach, which is something I guess I never grew up thinking that was possible. And yeah, I've always wanted to also have a dream of creating a nonprofits or kind of an alternative education organisation. So in a way, Artists' Apparel is a stepping stone of that or a starting point of that as well.
Tracy
Yeah, out of all the different impacts or causes you wanted to pursue, why did you choose mental health and why is that important to you personally?
Ilin
Yeah, good question. I, personally grew up in quite a toxic household. So up to the age of 17, I didn't have the best relationship with my mum and my brother, and it was just the three of us in the home. And I went through about three years of severe depression, where I was on and off antidepressants. This was also around the time I was failing all my subjects, which makes sense. Yeah. I think I look back and even though I could say, I wish I had a supportive family, I definitely didn't. And also friends, I think at the time, they didn't really understand why I would cry. Because when you're severely depressed, you just, you just cry at random, you don't have this kind of filter, where you say, just keep it in. And I would have friends that would say, I was crying for attention. My family would just kind of ignore me when I was going through something, and I think I needed a lot of support and I wasn't really getting that. And I did see psychologists and psychiatrists over the years and looking back, they weren't the best fit for me. But not knowing any better, I just kind of had to rely on almost my inner drive or fighter to kind of pull through. So I've always kind of believed that if you can make a path easier for someone through your own experience, you can definitely teach or guide or mentor or assist people that are going through something that you've been through. And that's kind of why mental health has always resonated with me and why I think a lot of my art, which is kind of my outlet as well, kind of draws back to that. Because, yeah, I think we all want to be seen in this world, and we all want to be acknowledged for however we're feeling no matter how hard the situations we're going through are and yeah, just have kind of an outlet to share that and actually empower some other people is a great place to start. Yeah.
Wendy
What an incredible like story and I think for you to find the inner drive, like, I don't think a lot of people understand how difficult that is, especially when you're like at such a low in your life as well. So to see you come this far, and like, you know, I've only known you for about like 20 minutes, it's so inspiring. I'm curious to know about what the creative process behind creating your pieces is, so how do you get something from like an idea to the final piece?
Ilin
Yeah, amazing question. So I struggle with ADHD, which means I am a heavy procrastinator, I get bored easily or complacent easily. And the only way that I've kind of been able to get desigs out through Artists' Apparel has just been through setting deadlines, and just not quitting. So there isn't really a structure to how I've kind of created my designs other than setting up a prompt and setting up a date. And just following on those two things, a lot of the designs that you probably see on my website have been made either in a day, in an hour, in no more than a week sometimes from from the day that design site to the launch date. Am I proud of that? Not necessarily but is it how I work? Yes. And I just kind of tried to embrace that as much as possible because not everyone's perfect. I think this is my version of being imperfect as well. And because I can print and I've got all the supplies in my home, I can control the follow through of a lot of launches, which is great. I have, you know, I don't have any kind of external delays or disturbances that can stop me from launching any new designs. So other than other than the blank apparel itself, that's something I don't actually make, but other than that, because a lot of it is handmade, that kind of process is really nice to have some sense of control over.
Tracy
Have you had like a favourite project that you've worked on?
Ilin
Oh, yes. So I did a collaboration about two months ago with a very talented illustrator called Carlos Design. The project essentially started off as us loving just each other's works and us kind of having a common interest in the effects of fast fashion on the earth as kind of an awareness message. And I really love that collaboration, because not only was it really free flowing, but also helped me realise that I enjoy just like the elements of almost helping another artist out as well, and creating another kind of platform where they can shine. And I think I enjoy that essence of doing collaborations. Not only do I get something out of it, but I can also help another artist. Even if that artist is able to touch one person, one new person in my circle of influences, that's more than enough for me.
Wendy
Yeah. On top of that, what are the like best and worst parts of doing Artists' Apparel?
Ilin
Wow, okay, I will start with the worst. The worst probably is probably having to fill all the shoes in a small business. I think if you're a creative person, you definitely probably enjoy the creation side of things more than anything else, and having to kind of manage social media to manage finances, stock, inventory, all that fun stuff that comes with running a small business, I definitely find that with my ADHD I struggle in those realms. Because I also struggle with anxiety as of current. Yeah, there's a lot of mental breakdowns that definitely come with having mainly high expectations on myself. But yeah, just not feeling like you're good enough. Sometimes that's always going to be a struggle. The best part for me, probably is community. It's not something I valued as much going into Artists' Apparel, but I think the only reason why I've been able to continue Artists' Apparel or even thrive in the slightest is because of the creative community and I really enjoy that aspect of having other artists that are similar, or they have kind of similar visions and goals or ambitions in life to really make it in the creative industry. That has helped me a lot, especially through my own mental health challenges. And I couldn't be more grateful for the friends that I kind of made, including Tracy and now you Wendy as well.
Tracy
Oh, I love that. Once you get into the community, it's such a nice feeling to meet other people who are in the similar space. Side story, I actually bumped into Ilin during a market when I was visiting Melbourne. And I was like to my partner, I follow her on Instagram. And he's like, go talk to her but I was like, I'm shy. But yeah, we ended up talking.
Ilin
No way. That's so funny because that's the exact same thing that happened to me. As soon as I realised who you were, I kind of was fan girling on the inside.
Tracy
It was like a highlight, like, just so random, because I'm from Sydney, you're from Melbourne. Like, what are the chances? But it was awesome. So what has been your biggest learning from, you know, Artists' Apparel, or even like maybe your journey to it? You know, you mentioned having multiple side hustles and now you're here, like, what has been your biggest learning?
Ilin
Yeah, 100%. I'd say biggest learning is just kind of live life. I think at the end of the day, we live in such a capitalist society and especially hustle culture, especially in big cities, and, you know, Melbourne and Sydney, that it never feels like we can take a break for ourselves. It never feels like we can take it easy once in a while. Everything's still going to be there when we come back to it. I always kind of go through experiences, where I learn how to improve myself the hard way. And earlier this year, I had so many projects that I just had said yes to and I became so overwhelmed, so anxious, so stressed, that I actually got COVID twice in a row. I didn't learn the first time clearly. For some reason, I don't know, I'm not a scientist, so I can't really look into it. But I had gotten COVID. The symptoms had lasted three weeks, and I fully healed and everything. And I tested negative and no joke, I caught a different strain of COVID only like two weeks later after that. So it was basically yeah, it was basically getting COVID twice in a month. It really made me rethink, okay, is what I'm doing healthy and that's kind of started a series of healthier routines.
Tracy
How do you balance everything? Like is Artists' Apparel the only thing you do? Or do you do other things outside of it? How do you balance all your priorites?
Ilin
Yes, great question. So up until about two weeks ago, I was a full time caretaker of my brother. He got into a accident last year from a psychotic episode so he's been recovering in rehab since, and that was kind of my little gateway in a way, like little blessing in disguise having that flexibility of not only caretaking for my brother but also working on Artists' Apparel. I haven't had another income since the job that I got fired from. I've had family support me since so I am quite privileged in that realm. But I have definitely yeah, worked really, really hard over the years so I know that everything that I poured my work into is my own. Yeah.
Wendy
Yeah. I think that's really beautiful that like, you know, and you can recognise that everything that you've worked on is yours, and like yours to share with the world as well. I think it goes back to the concept of community, right? Like, I think Tracy and I can relate because when we started this podcast, we didn't know where it would take us but you know, today's conversation is an example of how you connect with people of similar passions and similar stories, but also like different lived experiences that we can all learn from. So I'm just sitting here like soaking it all in.
Ilin
Congratulations to you both by the way, for starting the podcast and for Season 2, that's so exciting.
Tracy
Thank you.
Wendy
Yeah, it's been a lot of work but you know, I think it's so rewarding because we get to talk to people like yourselves and hear your story too.
Tracy
Yeah, with any creative endeavour, maybe you don't realise the amount of work that goes into it until you get into but it's worth it at the end.
Wendy
Has your life changed heaps since you started Artists' Apparel? I know it hasn't been long.
Ilin
Yeah, it hasn't been long. I just celebrated one year. And I would say, I have become definitely more confident in myself since starting. A lot of my natural characteristics haven't changed, I probably still the same person I was a year ago, but I'm definitely more confident and more forgiving on myself, which is something I still struggle with a lot, just having the decency to tell myself, you're okay, you're fine, you're gonna do great. You know, that kind of self talk or positive affirmations has really been a huge, huge change for me. Yeah, I would say the confidence is the biggest thing and also knowing that confidence kind of stretches out to my work ethic. Because previously, especially knowing my lack of ability to focus on tasks long term, I kind of also believed that I was a serial failure in a way, or just someone who would start and never follow through, never finish. So it's kind of helped me believe that, oh, I can I can actually follow through and I can actually have a business that is still going despite my insecurities or differences.
Tracy
Yeah, you probably had to go through all those things to find out the thing that you're really passionate about and would actually, you know, follow through with. All the failures were worth it because now you're here doing this. What are your future goals with Artists' Apparel, what's next for you?
Ilin
I feel like this could be an hour long. I've always been really ambitious. I think it comes with the entrepreneurial terrain is there's never an endpoint. For me, there's always something new to explore. The biggest goals I have right now are my sustainability goals. So I really believe in kind of a circular fashion future and I also believe in a biodegradable future, so wanting to, in the long run, create maybe a new way of looking at fast fashion. And having that fast fashion actually be biodegradable fashion or fashion that is temporary and goes back into the earth. And currently now, I'm doing that at a smaller scale, which is jewellery making. And I've been able to do a lot of research on different types of eco based plastics. So there's thermoplastic, which is completely biodegradable within I think it's 45 days of it being composted in the right regulations. And I've also discovered and been experimenting with a eco based resin that's been made out of soybean oil. So a lot of endeavours for me to kind of create more sustainability because that's where not only the future is, but it's also where I ethically align. And I could probably run through so many other goals, but those are probably the main ones, is to find and experiment and just keep trying different methods that haven't been tried before. Because I know I can be an artist and I can just make money off being an artist. But yeah, to be an artist that has sustainable visions attached to it, I don't think it's been done often before and I want to be able to pave that direction so that hopefully some of the upcoming generations can actually change the way that you know, art can be consumed or can be bought that doesn't have to affect the planet as negatively as it is, or can be right now.
Wendy
Yeah, for sure. I recently went to the Big Design Market in Sydney.
Ilin
Nice, how was it?
Wendy
It was so good. I was really surprised at how many creators there were there. And it was just like, I was almost overwhelmed. Because it was like the paralysis by choice of how many things I could buy. I was like, I need to put a limit on how much I can buy, because I could buy everything. But I feel like everything that you've just described about your process of finding something new and exploring it, especially with like jewellery making, I feel like I didn't really see all that much at the Big Design Market around that. So I think it's a really like, unique perspective to have or unique take to share with the world because I personally don't feel like I've been exposed to any of that before. So I'm really excited for your future and what we see come out of Artists' Apparel.
Ilin
Thank you so much.
Wendy
Do you have any advice for any like listeners who are either emerging artists or wanting to start up their own business?
Ilin
Yeah, I would say two parts of that question is one, you have time and to just just try things even if you're scared. By the way, is swearing allowed on this podcast?
Tracy
Yes!
Ilin
I have a running joke with my friend, is that if you're not shitting your pants in what you're doing, you're not growing and I think we made it a slogan between ourselves because I kid you not, I think that so many times that I still do things. And even though I think I'll always feel this way where I just feel like I am kind of shitting my pants, not literally but metaphorically. And having that kind of fear and doubts and even just the imposter syndrome, it's a sign that you're growing. And yeah, I would say the other part of that answer is know that you can grow at your own pace. If the only reason why you're not pursuing something that you love, or that you want to do, is because of fear, that is not the reason to not try. And if you have other reasons, like priorities, or studies or work, that's completely valid, but if the only reason why you're not starting something, is because of fear, that it's definitely something to kind of work on and try to combat within yourself.
Wendy
I love that. Yeah, I feel like I was just thinking about how COVID has made us all so comfortable like home bodies. So yeah, I'm so guilty of that, like, I tried starting something of my own as well, during COVID, and like, I've kind of like left it to just, I don't even know what the term is, but left it to die.
Ilin
What did you start?
Wendy
It was like making making jewellery as well. And it was mainly because like, my ears are really sensitive to jewellery. It started off as like just making it just for fun but then I was like, Oh, this is actually something that like, I really enjoyed doing and I want to share it with the world. But it also benefits me because I can't just wear like normal jewellery so I was like looking into hyperallergenic jewellery and stuff like that. But it's like you saying all those things has really made me question like, What am I doing with this thing that I've built? And why? Why am I finding it so hard to kind of go back to it? And I've just like, left it in the back of my mind, because I just don't want to face it. But yeah, you saying, well, that has made me kind of think like, I should probably go back to it, and is it like fear of where it could take me or like the fear of like giving up on something that actually doesn't mean that much. And I think you saying that you've started all these businesses as well, it takes a lot of courage to also realise when something doesn't work out for you as well because it's not what you're truly passionate in. And I think like throughout the whole conversation today, like you've touched on themes of that as well. So yeah, just so much to learn from this conversation. So thank you so much for sharing.
Tracy
I think that's a nice kind of place to wrap up our conversation. But what we always do is we have these three dinner table questions, fun quick fire type questions, that we normally ask our guests. So the first question is, what is your favourite place in the world?
Ilin
Melbourne, even though I have travelled to about 18 different countries around four continents. Yeah, it always comes back to Melbourne, which is quite funny.
Tracy
Wow, that kind of gave me chills because I feel like normally when you ask people these questions, it's always a place where they're not living in. But the fact that your favourite place is where is where your home is, that's really nice.
Ilin
I had to leave to appreciate it, I will say that.
Wendy
Yeah. The second question is, if money and time wasn't an issue, what would you be doing right now?
Ilin
If money and time wasn't an issue? Does that include opportunity as well?
Tracy
Yeah, you can do anything.
Ilin
I'd love to just curate a show. So be an art curator, and just help other artists that are up and coming or just, you know, they're just starting out or just need, you know, kind of that helping hands? I would love to curate a show. I mean, I do have fantasies of doing something on a one off basis in New York. But yeah, overall, to just curate something.
Tracy
Very possible. I see that in the future for you. We're going to stay tuned.
Ilin
Please! Definitely going to happen but I'm not sure when.
Tracy
The last one, what has been your biggest life lesson?
Ilin
Man, so there's a saying that I love to follow by Confucius, is like, it does not matter how slowly you go, as long as you don't stop. I think often times, I will feel like I'm failing because when you when you compare if you're successful or if you're a failure based on results, you will always have a bias towards being a failure, or that you're failing. And I think it's important to always know that. Yeah, the journey is just as much just as important as the little milestones that you kind of go on and create for yourself. And, yeah, I think that's really important.
Wendy
That's a nice note to end on.
Ilin
Thank you so much for letting me be part of this. It's so exciting to see how you both have kind of created something new that doesn't exist out there. And, yeah, it's really wonderful.
Wendy
Yeah, I think the same can be said for yourself like, this whole time I've been just thinking like we all need to give ourselves credit for the things that we've done, you know, because we are so focused, as like I guess really ambitious people, on where we're going and where we're looking in the future that we always forget to like look back and reflect on all the milestones. So I hope today is kind of like giving everyone that lesson as well. But thank you so much for taking the time and thank you to Tracy as well for like connecting all of us.
Tracy
Thank you to the internet! Yeah, no, thank you so much for spending your Saturday morning with us. I have really really enjoyed this conversation.
Ilin
Thank you! I'm really excited to see what you do with this episode and just see what you continue to do.
Tracy
Thank you. We will put all your links to Artists' Apparel, anything you want to plug in the show notes, everybody go check that out, go support her. Thank you for listening to our podcast again. Thank you, everybody. Bye!